DwarkaMai - Sai Baba Forum

Indian Spirituality => Philosophy & Spirituality => Topic started by: Ramesh Ramnani on September 30, 2005, 12:09:08 PM

Title: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on September 30, 2005, 12:09:08 PM
God is not a 'who', He is not a person. God is the totality, the sum total of the whole existence.

God is not somebody: God is 'allness'.

I am God, you are God -- everybody is God, all is God. In fact, to use the word 'God' is not right. There is godliness and no God at all. To be really true to reality, 'godliness' is the right word to use, not 'God'. The moment you say 'God', many things arise out of that word....

First: God becomes a person -- and God is not a person. God is impersonal existence; God is impersonal 'beingness'. Once you say 'God', God becomes a 'he' -- that is male chauvinistic, that is ugly. God is neither a 'he' nor a 'she'. And if you decide to use 'he' or 'she', then 'she' is far better -- because 'she' includes 'he', but the 'he' does not include 'she'. 'She' is far bigger -- naturally so. Man is born out of the woman. The woman can contain the man, the man cannot contain the woman. The man has no womb to contain anything.

But both are wrong. God is neither man nor woman, because He is not a person at all.

Then what is God? Don't ask 'who is God?' ask 'what is God?' Life is God. Love is God. Light is God. It is an existential experience. You never come across God like an object. You come across godliness -- like an inner upsurge. Something blooms in you... and you cannot even find the flower, just a fragrance. God is not a flower but a fragrance.

I cannot indicate where God is, who God is. I can simply relate my experience of fragrance to you.

Existence is full of godliness. Everything is divine -- the flowers, the birds, the rocks, the rivers.... Not that you have to create a temple for God and a church for God -- that is stupid, because God is everywhere! For whom are you creating the temple and the church and the mosque? If you want to pray, you can pray anywhere. Wherever you bow down you bow down to God, because none else exists.

You will have to understand MY language. 'Belief' is a dirty word here. And by belief you are prevented from knowing; you are not helped. And it is because of belief that man is divided. It has not helped man's spiritual growth; it has been one of the greatest barriers. It is belief that divides you as a Christian, a Hindu, a Mohammedan. It is belief that divides the earth. It is belief that creates wars.

The MOMENT YOU believe, you are no more one with humanity: you are a Christian or a Hindu or a Mohammedan. You have gone ugly, you are poisoned! And now you will be continuously fighting for your belief. And all these people fighting for their beliefs are blind people fighting for their belief in light -- and nobody knows what light is.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on September 30, 2005, 12:14:25 PM
The Meaning of God

There is an indefinable mysterious Power that pervades everything.

I feel It, though I do not see It.

It is this unseen Power which makes Itself felt and yet defies all

proof,because It is so unlike all that I perceive through my senses.

It transcends the senses....

That informing Power or Spirit is God....

For I can see that in the midst of death life persists, in the midst

of untruth, truth persists, in the midst of darkness light persists.

Hence I gather that God is Life, Truth, Light. He is love.

He is supreme good.

But he is no God who merely satisfies the intellect

If He ever does.

God to be God must rule the heart and transform it.

~ Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
(Young India, October 11, 1928)

subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 02, 2005, 12:53:20 AM
Do you really know who God is? You don't know even who you are -- how can you know who God is? You have not even become acquainted with the closest reality -- that is beating in your heart, that is breathing in you, that is alive in you -- and you are thinking to become acquainted with the totality of existence? the infinite, the vast, the eternal? And you have not even been able to have a taste of your OWN being. You have not even tasted a single drop of the sea, and you want to taste the whole sea?

And you NEVER go to the sea! You go to the scriptures. You never go to the sea -- you go to the priests. And then you create belief, and the belief comes out of your fear, not out of your love, not out of your knowing, not out of your experience -- it simply comes out of your fear. You believe because alone you feel afraid; because you are childish, you want somebody to hang on to, to cling to. You need a father-figure! so that you can always look up to him, so that you can always throw the responsibility, so that you can always cry and weep and remain helpless.

It is out of your fear that you have created God. And a God created out of fear is ill, it is pathological. It will not bring you well-being: it will make you more and more pathological.

The so-called religious man is almost pathological; he is neurotic. Go to the monasteries, look around with open eyes, and you will be simply surprised that in the name of religion a thousand and one kinds of pathologies are practised.

People don't become healthy and whole -- they become more and more helpless, more and more frightened, more and more eccentric. Of course, their neurosis is such that it is respected.

Freud is right when he says that religion is a collective neurosis. I agree with him. The so-called religious ARE neurotic. If a single person behaves in that way, you will think he is mad; but if a big crowd behaves in that same way, you think it is religious.

Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 09, 2005, 03:03:45 AM
JAI SAI RAM!!!

Anand means bliss and bhakta means devotion, a devotee. And that is going to be your path.

Bhakta should make it his very style of life to be loving, whether someone was present or not, for the emphasis should be not on the object of love, but on the feeling of love itself. Whatsoever you regard with love, with respect, becomes a person and is no longer just a thing.

So, for a loving person the whole world becomes luminous with personality. That's what God means. There is no way to approach God directly, only through love. So slowly go on giving things a personality. And that depends on your attitude and how you approach them. You can go to the tree and touch it as if you are touching your beloved. In that moment that tree becomes your beloved, because it is you who creates your world.

So, devotion is nothing but a tremendous creativity and the whole world is by and by transfigured, transplanted into a new dimension. Everything becomes luminous with personality. Nothing is a thing... everything has a soul. You impart the soul, or it has always been there but you were blind. Love opens your eyes and you discover -- yes, that is more correct: you discover the soul.
 
So let it be a continuous adventure. Look at things, look at people, at the sky, but let love be flowing. Your love will create the world around you, a new world, a new being That new being is what in the old ages people used to call God.

God is not somebody sitting somewhere. Unless you impart godhood to existence, God is nowhere to be found. Unless you create Him, He is nowhere. God exists in the love of the devotee. You get me? In the love of the devotee, God exists.

OM SAI RAM!!!

Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 09, 2005, 05:54:17 AM
I have heard one Sufi story. Once it happened that a fish in the ocean heard somebody talking about the ocean, and the fish heard for the first time that there exists something like the ocean. She started to search, she started to ask and inquire, but nobody knew where the ocean was. She asked many fish, great and small, known and unknown, famous and not so famous, but nobody was capable of answering where the ocean is. They all said they have heard about it; they all said, "Sometime in the past our ancestors knew it -- it is written in the scriptures." And the ocean was all around! They were in the ocean; they were talking, living in the ocean.

Sometimes it happens that the closest, the nearest, is so obvious that you can forget it.

The nearest is so near that you cannot look at it, because even to look at something a certain distance is needed, space is needed. And there is no space between you and the divine; there is no space between the fish and the ocean -- no gap. The fish is part of the ocean, just like a wave; or the ocean is just the infinite spread of the being of the fish. They are not two; they exist together, their being is joined together. Their bodies may appear different but their inner spirit is one, it is unitary.

The same is the situation with us. We go on asking about God -- whether God exists or not -- and we argue much for and against. Some believe, some disbelieve; some say it is just a myth and some say it is the only truth, but they all depend on scriptures, nobody has an immediate experience. When I say immediate experience I mean experience that has grown into you, or into which you have grown... intimate, so intimate that you cannot feel where you end and that experience begins.

God cannot be an object of any search; he remains the very subjectivity. You are not going to find him somewhere because he is everywhere, and if you start looking for him somewhere you will not find him anywhere. All that is, is divine. God just means the whole existence, the totality, the ocean that surrounds you, the ocean of life.

The first thing to remember before we enter into this intimate search and inquiry, into this intimate experience that people have always called God, or Buddha has called nirvana, or Jesus has called the kingdom of God -- names differ, but the experience indicated is the same -- the first thing to remember is: it is not far away, it is where you are.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 12, 2005, 04:17:50 PM
You seem to be saying that God is omnipresent. Yet God is truth.Where there is truth there is happiness and peace.

 So why is there so much degradation in the world if God is everywhere and in everything.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 13, 2005, 01:44:44 AM
JAI SAI RAM!!!

Mataji first of all I welcome you to BABA SAI's blessed Forum. As usual I ask every newcomer to post something more about them under Sai Devotees Profile. The same thing I will also ask you.

Straight away I may say that it is not HE who has degraded the world......It is we all are responsible for its degradation......including me.

OM SAI RAM!!!



Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 13, 2005, 03:56:17 PM
Thank you for your welcome. However I am not sure this post is in the correct forum. I am a student of Raj Yoga and I am interested in discussing aspects of spiritual knowledge with seekers of truth. I have friends who are Sai Baba devotees. I have no wish to cause any  offence to your members so please direct me to an appropriate forum if here is not the right place to post.

I agree man is responsible for degradation in the world, but the question is why is this? If man was pure in the beginning how did he become impure? What is the cause of impurity?
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 13, 2005, 11:02:13 PM
JAI SAI RAM!!!

Mata dear....I didn't get you. Can you elaborate please? No! you are not at all offencing to any one please.

OM SAI RAM!!!
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 14, 2005, 03:37:02 AM
Man once lived in the world in total happiness and peace.

Now we see degradation everywhere, by this I mean lust; anger; greed ;ego; attachment etc. Sorrow is everywhere pain and suffering is everywhere.

Truth/God/Love cannot exist in a world of darkness and degradation, so how can "Godliness" be everywhere?

How can God be Omnipresent?

Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 14, 2005, 03:41:18 AM
Could you explain what Jai Sai Ram and Om Sai Ram mean?
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Shammi on October 14, 2005, 09:36:22 AM

SAIRAM

Please ask these questions to your self ....just to your inner self and   you will get all answers there
Can you please take little   time to do that   ..?


SAIRAM


Bow to Sri Sai - Raksha Karo Deva !!!
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on October 14, 2005, 09:56:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mata

Could you explain what Jai Sai Ram and Om Sai Ram mean?




When you meet each other,do not shout hello or bye-bye,

or some silly chatter.

Let the moment of meeting be sanctified by the remembrance of God.

Say, Ram Ram, or Om, or Hari Om, or Sai Ram.


subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on October 14, 2005, 10:00:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by subhasrini

quote:
Originally posted by mata

Could you explain what Jai Sai Ram and Om Sai Ram mean?




When you meet each other,do not shout hello or bye-bye,

or some silly chatter.

Let the moment of meeting be sanctified by the remembrance of God.

Say, Ram Ram, or Om, or Hari Om, or Sai Ram.


subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.






When greeting someone with "Sai Ram", try to think of greeting not only the worldly body that you see but our SAI in that person.

 We could use any name of God; it is the intent and feeling that counts. We have happened to choose "Sai Ram" because of the universal appeal of that name as a mantra.

(Some devotees do repetition of the Name --namasmarana-- with "Om Sri Sai Ram", repeating "Om Sri" on the inbreath and "Sai Ram" on the outbreath.)

The word "Sai" can be split into two: "Sa" and "Ai". We have been told that "Sa" means universal father, while "Ai" stands for universal mother. Sai Baba, our Sai, is our mother and father.

"Ram" can be viewed as a shortening of "Rama". One interpretation of this word is that "Ra" is the Fire Principle, which burns all to ash, while "ma" stands for maya or illusion, so together, they mean the destruction of illusion.

Sai Baba has said also that "Rama" means "He who pleases, fills with bliss, causes delight", that "Rama" means the joy that comes from love.


subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Astrid on October 14, 2005, 10:14:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mata

Man once lived in the world in total happiness and peace.

Now we see degradation everywhere, by this I mean lust; anger; greed ;ego; attachment etc. Sorrow is everywhere pain and suffering is everywhere.

Truth/God/Love cannot exist in a world of darkness and degradation, so how can "Godliness" be everywhere?

How can God be Omnipresent?





Sai Ram

Mata, dear, are you aware of the many bodies of man? We are not and do not have this physical body only. We have more bodies than this one only and they are ever more subtle. The number of bodies varies from philosophy to philosophy. Some speak of as many as twelve, others of eight, others of five and some of only three. No matter their number these bodies are like shells around the brightly shining divine being we really are, each and every one of us. The thing about these bodies is that they get ever more dense, ever more coarse with the densest being this physical one. And they also work like veils on our awareness. This is to say: once we are in this physical body we tend to forget about all the others and their qualities.
Now, if we identify with this physical body and do so fully, we will only be concerned with its needs and material things in general. We become desperate to fulfill our physical needs. And the simple fact that the more you eat the bigger your stomach grows the hungrier you become the more you need to eat .... the more desperate you become to get enough food explains on a very basic level how anger, greed, envy came into the world.
The same thing applies to emotions. The more we identifiy with our emotional (astral) body, the more desperate we become in getting our emotional needs fulfilled. Desperation, anger, jealousy grow ...
Identification with our mental aspects is rare, while attachment to it is rather common. In such cases our intellectual capabilities mean all to us (remember the time when everybody was crazy for IQ-tests?), which again creates desperation ("I need to know everything"), anger, envy and jealousy ...
These feelings put into action are the cause of the suffering in this world.

But the fact that we identify with only part of what we really are does not mean, that the rest is not there. It is simply that we are not aware.
GOD is omnipresent. It (to avoid a "he" or "she") is in every living being (including the minerals) it is only our awareness which is veiled.
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" says Ortega y Gasset. GOD, too, is in the eye of the beholder. The vision of our physical eyes is blind to everything non-material, it is our inner eyes that see. And to their vision everything material, emotional, mental and so on becomes translucent and can see GOD in everything, see Its omnipresence, see the divine in ourselves and our neighbours.

And if we look into the world with our inner eyes more often, what we feel and what we do will change, too ...

OM SAI RAM

Astrid

Restless was my heart till it found rest in THEE
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on October 14, 2005, 03:16:10 PM
God is the creator of this universe.

He is the only true God;

there is no other God beside him.

He is eternal, spiritual, infinite, the store of all good,

 all joy, without parts, without form, one without a second,

the ruler of all, all-pervading, omniscient, almighty,

merciful, all-holy and the saviour of sinners.

His worship alone leads to happiness in this world and the next.

Love and reverence for him, an exclusive faith in him,

 praying and singing to him spiritually with these feelings

and doing the things pleasing to him constitute His true worship.

To worship and pray to images and other created objects is not a

true mode of divine adoration.

God does not incarnate himself and there is no one book which has

been directly revealed by God or is wholly infallible.

All men are His children;

therefore they should behave towards each other as

brethren without distinction.


JAISAIRAM!!!!


subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 16, 2005, 07:33:38 PM
Respected Brothers,

Thank you for the replies.

My personal reflection tells me that God is not omnipresent. So I would like to understand the reason you think it to be so.

Where God exists there is the light of knowledge, understanding, love, wisdom, truth etc

Can you tell me then, if God is everywhere and in everything as you suggest, why is there such unhappiness and suffering in the world?
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 17, 2005, 11:21:15 PM
JAI SAI RAM!!!

Mata dear you are absolutely absolutely right and that is what every human being is doing and searching for..... and the answer to its question - whosoever gets it helps him for his liberation.

Everyone's perception is Unique and in that uniqueness all get their unique questions and answers too.  

BABA SAI BLESS ALL IN HIS UNIQUE WAY.....

OM SAI RAM!!!
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Praveen P V S on October 18, 2005, 09:11:06 PM
Welcome Mata ji,

The question you asked is really a very interesting one.
And the answer for it will always be a very vauge one irrespective of how close it is to the truth. So any answer can be a very weak one unless we have a base to speak and rely on. And that base is Sai Baba over here. I Believe in Baba and some one else might believe in someone else but in reality we all want a wall(Baba) to rest on when we are exhausted.

If I knew the reality then I might have beacome a Bhrahma Gyani, alas i am not. It is just the quest for truth the every one should thrive for and reaching it is the ultimate goal.

Every one in this forum believe in Baba and they depend on him. And believe it or not baba also responds to us in a similar way helping us. Its our belief that is moving all of us forward.
Now you might as well ask that when Baba is there every where then why doesn't he clear the clouds in every ones life.

To be frank will we care to listen to any one if we knew that every thing in this world is perfect, if only happines prevailed, will we know that value of light if darkness was not there, the answer will be a big "NO".

Baba is present every where, he has given us this body and mind to know and follow the right path, the way towards truth. The reason for you being a student of Rajyoga and I being a decilple of Baba is one and the same. To know the truth and reach god. Its true he is every where but wants us to fight for ourselves so that we become capable to know the truth.

Can we understand the beauty of Mathamatics without understanding numbers. We will understand the beauty and cause of maths only if we know the basics in it. Its only then that we will be able to comprehand it. Similarly how can we know and understand God without earning to basic virute to know. So thats the reason why God wants us to face this world so that we can understand the reality and its beauty. He is beyond our understanding but not unachievable. He is alaways with us, but he wants us to give it a try, if we dont succeed then we can look at him and he will look back at us to help us. Its as simple as that.

If this answer doesn;t satisfy you.  Look at Baba...
Baba is great and full of love.. He will surely show you a way where you can really comprehend the answer.

I love you Baba.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 18, 2005, 09:26:05 PM
JAI SAI RAM!!!

Praveen Bhai you have bowled me all over as simple as that.

Nice and compact reply coming out of those basics you are talking of and that is MY BABA SAI.

You are in our Divine Union. While I was writing this post I came across this message :

Before undertaking any action, answers should be found for the five questions - who, when, where, what and how. People today act without concern for these considerations. Everyone must rely on his own judgement using his powers of observation and discretion. There is a divine power in every limb and organ of the body. This divine potency is called Angirasa. The name is derived from the fact that the Divine is present in every Anga (limb) as Rasa (life sustaining essence). There is no need to search for the Divine outside yourself. You are Divine. All your powers are Divine potencies.  

OM SAI RAM!!!

Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 19, 2005, 12:21:43 PM


Respected Brother Praveen PVS,

You wrote:

"Can we understand the beauty of Mathamatics without understanding numbers. We will understand the beauty and cause of maths only if we know the basics in it. Its only then that we will be able to comprehand it. Similarly how can we know and understand God without earning to basic virute[what is virute?] to know."

It is the desire to understand that led me to Raj Yoga the path of knowledge.

In Raj Yoga the myth of omnipresence is dispelled through the understanding of the creators and their creation. This is the understanding of the parts played of the mother and father; the teacher and the satguru.

May I ask, do you see God as incoporeal or coporeal?

Can you tell me if in your teaching you have the concept of Golden Age; Silver Age; Copper Age; Iron Age and Confluence Age?

It would be good to understand the points on which we agree and also to understand and respect any differences.

Once again may I say I do not wish to cause any offence if there is anything controversial in these posts.

Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Astrid on October 19, 2005, 12:56:22 PM
Sai Ram

Mata, dear, none of your posts is offending, don't worry. See, BABA SAI's approach is not an analytical but a holistic one - and so is ours as HIS devotees. Such teachings are better understood with the heart than with the mind. I may be phantasising, but I presume it was a nudge from your heart that brought you here. So may I refer you to the Shri Sai Satcharita? You will find in there the meaning as well as the means of what BABA SAI taught and continues to teach. And while reading you may understand that your question

"... do you see God as incorporeal or corporeal?" - we can only answer it with "Yes."

OM SAI RAM

Astrid

Restless was my heart till it found rest in THEE
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 19, 2005, 02:30:13 PM
Respected Brother Astrid,

When you say teachings are better understood from the heart than the mind, do you mean the heart of the enlightened mind, or the heart of emotion.

When there is realisation of a spiritual truth through the intellect, my heart is filled with appreciation and love for the one who enabled me to "see". However this is quite different from "blind faith" which is not based on understanding but on following or repeating spiritual teachings without understanding.

So do you mean the heart of the intellect, or the heart of emotion?
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Astrid on October 19, 2005, 03:15:41 PM
Sai Ram

Mata, my dear, I mean the heart of soul.
(Have you read my post on the different bodies of man - this same topic, page 1)?

OM SAI RAM

Astrid
Oh, I happen to be your sister[;)][:)]

Restless was my heart till it found rest in THEE
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Praveen P V S on October 19, 2005, 03:40:08 PM
Dear Ramesh Bhai thank you for taking me into the Divine Union. [:)]

Dear Mata ji,
Comming to your question, I want to make it clear that its not my teaching but just my perspective which I believe in. These are just my simple understandings that life has thought me. And frankly your are not at all hurting any sentiments.[:)]
Your question is like asking can you see air????

I can say that though we cannot see air but still its our life giver and sustainer. Similarly GOD(Baba) may not be visible, may or may not have any physical form but still he is the life giver and sustainer. We can not surely deny this simple fact that still we cannot control LIFE and DEATH, and unknowingly every one uses the word FATE, clearly showing the Part Played by KARMA theory.

I certainly dont know about what might have happened in all those ages but one thing i surely know is that, if I do anything good it will surely yeild some good results and if I do anything bad that will yeild just the opposite. I am not speaking about Karma here but a simple truth.
If we do a problem in a right way then we will reach the correct answer and if we use a wrong approch then surely we will end up with a wrong answer. So here if we have a doubt we can consult our GURU (Baba) who will show us the right approch to solve it. Its as simple as it. Baba is our GURU here showing us the way to reach the ultimate(Which is still unknown to me) Enlightenment.

Here I would like to state the fact the Nature by itself is not perfect every thing in this world tends toward perfection but are not perfect. So I think we can never clearly state when can one reach the state of enlightenment, I even dont know what it is like. But I am sure that all of us in here are aiming at IT.
They might be many ways one might reach it, diciples like me, or students like you, are sailing on the same river but on different boats. And looking to reach the same destination.
So dear Mata ji, the answer wether we will reach it or not depends on the Type of Boat we take (Faith/Understanding) and type of GUIDE(Baba/ anyone else)will matter.

I believe Faith (Faith is always blind) with understanding (without any EGO) will take us on the right path.

Please apologise me if I have hurt any of your feelings.[:)]

I love you Baba.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: drkalaga on October 19, 2005, 03:57:18 PM
Dear Mataji,

I have only one answer to your basic question (Why is there so much suffering in this world?) Please read on.

Hindu scriptures call this age as "Kaliyuga", an age where goodness, righteousness and justice limp on one leg. This yuga is not yours or mine; it is ordained by The Lord (Vishnu). It is defined by the constant struggle between good and evil. It is also defined by the presence and guidance of Saints like Shirdi Saibaba and Ramana Maharishi who came here to guide us through this treacherous jungle called "reality".

Someone earlier mentioned that we are ourselves to blame for this decadence we see in this world. He is right. As a race, we are responsible to the suffering we see outside. Even the cleanest man will get 'dirt' on him while he walks on the 'dusty roads'. Know what I mean? We become affected by the cruelty and evil we see around us. Society is a collective entity. On the outside it seems as if it does not follow any specific norm; actually it does. That is, the Rule of The Lord. Nothing happens on this earth without His wish. Lord Krishna tells this clearly in The Gita. This entire reality we see is just a huge, drama enacted by Him and we are just players. Do you understand?

Sai Himself said that all we see around us is ephimeral or "maya" (illusion). The bonds and ties that bind us are all set by our own Karma and Divine Disposition. HE is the writer, producer, director of the movie we are seeing here as "life".  

Even Professor Einstien remarked that trying to know God's reasoning is impossible. It is beyond our limited intellect. But as Shirdi Saibaba and Ramana Maharishi said we can "experience" that wisdom by reaching the meditative stage known as "enlightenment" or "self-realization". And, above all, please remember that GOD as an entity is not a quantitative thing fit for analysis or dissection. You cannot analyze something that is beyond your intellect. Can you define God with an equation? No. We just believe and seek the JOY that pours forth from that belief.

Please feel free to engage us in interesting dialogues. Om Sai Ram!

= Sriram Kalaga



Dr. Sriram Kalaga
Jacksonville, Florida, USA
e-mail: drkalaga@aol.com
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Praveen P V S on October 19, 2005, 04:13:43 PM
Dear Sriram ji,

That was an exceptional answer, it is true that we cannot comprehend the enormity of GOD with our intellect and analysis. He is beyond any comprehension. I would like to add that if He is Paramathma and we all are his children then, we too posses the same qualities as he has. Baba is our final abode where we merge into him and become him. We are in an age where every one of us should tend towards their base quaulities (Love, Peace, Harmony, Truth) which are also Baba's qualities. Our quest for these qualities will lead us on the right path, the Path of Baba.

I love you Baba.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 21, 2005, 01:12:59 AM
JAI SAI RAM!!!

What is Life?
What is life?
This question,
I was asking and asking.
But nobody was there
who could answer it properly.
It troubled me,
Took away my comfort
and left me to weep.
A long time had passed,
But I was still unable to find the answer.
Wandering here and there
in search of it,
I‘d asked many what really was it,
But I hadn’t got a satisfied answer.
Somebody said it was full of sorrows,
And others said no;
it was full of joy and pleasure.

Then I went to the sages to get an answer,
They preached it was mere illusion,
An illusion like the bubble of water,
Listening all this I got confused.
Then I asked it from my soul,
And the answer was loud and clear,

“Life is a gift of God.
Use it for the welfare of all beings, and
Take the blessings of Thee.”

After getting such an answer,
this question has never troubled me.
Because I knew the real door,
Where the answer of all such questions
can be explored.

OM SAI RAM!!!
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Shammi on October 21, 2005, 01:49:32 AM


Sairam Praveen ........Exceptionally quoted
<<Here I would like to state the fact the Nature by itself is not perfect every thing in this world tends toward perfection but are not perfect. So I think we can never clearly state when can one reach the state of enlightenment, I even dont know what it is like. But I am sure that all of us in here are aiming at IT.
They might be many ways one might reach it, diciples like me, or students like you, are sailing on the same river but on different boats. And looking to reach the same destination.
So dear Mata ji, the answer wether we will reach it or not depends on the Type of Boat we take (Faith/Understanding) and type of GUIDE(Baba/ anyone else)will matter.

I believe Faith (Faith is always blind) with understanding (without any EGO) will take us on the right path.
>>



Bow to Sri Sai - Raksha Karo Deva !!!
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Dipika on October 21, 2005, 02:51:08 AM
This Celestial Song was sung by Lord Krishna.



Whatever happened, it happened for good.
Whatever is happening, is happening for good.
Whatever that will happen, it will be for good.
What have you lost for which you cry?
What did you bring with you, which you have lost?
What did you produce, which has destroyed?
You did not bring anything when you were born.
Whatever you have, you have received from Him.
Whatever you will give, you will give to Him.
You came empty handed and

you will go the same way.

Whatever is yours today was somebody else’s yesterday and  will be somebody else’s tomorrow.

Change is the law of the universe.
 
Sai baba let your holy lotus feet be our sole refuge.OMSAIRAM

dipika duggal
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Dipika on October 21, 2005, 02:54:00 AM
The Inscrutable Power of Maya

Baba's words were always short, pithy, deep, full of meaning, efficient and well-balanced. He was ever content and never cared for anything. He said, "Though I have become a Fakir, have no house or wife, and though leaving off all cares, I have stayed at one place, the inevitable Maya teases Me often. Though I forgot Myself I cannot forget Her. She always envelops Me.This Maya (illusive power) of the Lord (Shri Hari) teases God Brahma and others; then what to speak of a poor Fakir like Me? Those who take refuge in the Lord wil be freed from Her clutches with his grace".

In such terms Baba spoke about the power of Maya. Lord Shri Krishna has said to Uddhava in the Bhagwat that the Saints are His living forms; and see what Baba had said for the welfare of His devotees: "Those who are fortunate and whose demerits have vanished; take to My worship. If you always say 'Sai, Sai' I shall take you over the seven seas; believe in these words, and you will be certainly benefited. I do not need any paraphernalia of worship - either eight-fold or sixteen-fold. I rest there where there is full devotion".

Sai baba let your holy lotus feet be our sole refuge.OMSAIRAM

dipika duggal
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Dipika on October 21, 2005, 02:54:48 AM
Importance of Human Birth

In this wonderful universe, God has created billions (84 lacs according to Hindusastra calculation) of creatures or beings (including Gods, demigods, insects, beasts and men) inhabiting heaven, hell, earth, ocean, sky and other intermediate regions. Of these, those creatures or souls, whose merits preponderate, go to heaven and live there till they enjoy the fruits of their actions, and when this is done, they are cast down while those souls, whose sins or demerits preponderate, go down to hell, and suffer the consequences of their misdeeds for so long a time as they deserve. When their merits and demerits balance each other, they are born on earth as human beings, and are given a chance to work out their salvation. Ultimately when their merits and demerits both drop down (are got rid of) completely, they get their deliverance and become free. To put the matter in a nutshell, souls get their births or transmigrations according to their deeds and intelligence (development of their minds).

http://www.saibaba.org/satcharitra/sai8.html
Sai baba let your holy lotus feet be our sole refuge.OMSAIRAM

dipika duggal
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on October 22, 2005, 07:35:46 PM
Knowing God  


God, as all the scriptures and the Saints have said, is nameless and unknowable. Then how can we know God? The answer is that Absolute is not knowable, yet makes Himself known by manifesting Himself as Light and Sound Principle.

Most religions tell us that the creation began from these primal manifestations. Now the Divine Light and the Divine Sound or Word may be contacted by rising above the physical consciousness. They exist in a latent form in all of us. Our Goal must, therefore, be to contact them and develop them within us.

To do this, we through meditation learn to withdraw our soul to its seat behind and between the eyes. Having once contacted the inner Light and Sound, we can progress towards their Source, passing from plane to plane until we reach God.

God is Absolute. Nobody can ever know Him. God when comes into action, creates all beings, sentient or insentient, and controls them. Our physical bodies work so long we are in the body, but we cannot run away out of it through the open eyes, ears, nose and mouth etc. That God-in action Power is called Word or Naam or Kalma etc. It controls our souls in the body. When that power is drawn, our souls leave the body. Breathing goes out of the body but cannot remain outside.

Some power pushes it back into the body. That God inaction Power controls the whole of the creation. That is called God.

God is the Supreme Law working in all creation seen or unseen. He cannot be seen or heard in His Absolute Form, but when He came into Expression, He manifested in the form of Naam—the Divine Light and holy Sound Principle.

 The lowest links of this Divine Principle are available in the human body which can be experienced by rising above body consciousness with the help of the Living Master.


 
JAISAIRAM!!!!!!

subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 23, 2005, 03:08:03 PM
Respected Brothers and Sisters,

This computer has been out of action so I have been unable to read the posts for a few days. The feeling I have from this thread and as a newcomer to the forum is one of love and acceptance from all of you. So thank you for your responses and willingness to discuss aspects of spiritual knowledge.

I wish to study your responses before replying

Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 23, 2005, 04:10:26 PM
Respected Sister Astrid,

 We have read  your post from page one. We agree that once there is identification with the body then the soul is forgotten and we get lead by physical desires.

When we are led or pulled by our emotions then we are not using the  intellect but are led by the mind, and that is like the wild horse out of control.

 The divine intellect that has the ability to make decisions, to understand, to discern etc. becomes obsolete.The mind becomes the master instead of the servant.

We are in agreement that it is lack of awareness that causes man to be led by his base instincts instead of making decisions in life based upon the divine intellect. (Krishna in the Mahabharat shows us the clarity of a Divine Godly intellect)So we have to learn to think in a different way.

Now with respect there is a big jump from here into saying that God is onmipresent, so I still ask how you get to this conclusion?.

It would make more sense in todays world to say that Raven or Maya is omnipresent because that is what we are witnessing in the world. Degradation, irreligiousness, unrighteousness, the vices, conflict and so on.

The religious fathers have come and gone. Abrahmam, Buddha, Christ, Guru Nanek, Shankrachariya Mohammed and so on.Their teaching of surrender, peace, love, compassion etc has been heard by the world , yet, degradation continues.

Why?

As you say " our awareness is veiled" . So does it not suggest that we need something different.

In Raj Yoga the Father tells us that one of the biggest mistakes in the scriptures is to consider God to be omnipresent.To say he in the pebbles and stones is to defame Him. To say he is in the animals worms and so on is to defame him.These are merely misunderstandings that have arisen as a consequence of a limited understand, a literal interpretation.

 On the path of knowledge, on the unlimited subtle level, these terms refer to the type of intellect of the soul. So for example an animal like intellect is one who follows the desires of the body.A stone like intellect is one who is unable to imbibe spiritual knowledge.

If the world is to return to a Golden Age where man lives in peace and harmony does it not seem logical that the incoporeal father of all souls will enter the world to teach his children the way to return home?

How can the Godfather be omnipresent?

Where would his children find him if he was everywhere?

I ask these questions but also have respect for your path.





Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 23, 2005, 04:32:04 PM
Respected Praveen PVS,

You have not hurt any feeling at all. Are we not all children of God and students of truth just sharing with each other. It seems so.

God is the life giver/the creator and sustainer as you say. The knowledge of the Trimurti shows us the different tasks and roles the father plays.When ,where, how, and why he comes. Actually he gives his own introduction, no one else can do this.

As for the different ages, in the Golden Age and Silver age there is happiness, in the Copper Age and Iron Age there is degradation which leads deeper and deeper into unhappiness. Then in the Confluence Age there is the meeting of the Ocean of Knowledge with the rivers of knowledge. The Father and the children meet.Sangamyug is now.

As for the enlightenment you speak of, we have a word Man mana bhav, this is where the thoughts of the children become the same as the fathers. It is a high destination, the aim being liberation whilst in the body.

Faith as you say is important, faith in Baba and faith in the divine intellect.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 23, 2005, 05:12:11 PM
Respected drkalanga,

We agree this is Kaliyuga, the age of darkness and ignorance. What is interesting is that in this Age we also have many Gurus in the world, Teachers, Sages etc. You have your respected Guru we have the Father, Teacher and Satguru the only one who can teach Raj Yoga.

So it is good that we can respect each others path and share spirituality.

You say,
"Even the cleanest man will get dirt on him if he walks on the dusty roads"

Yes this is true, we become coloured by the company we keep, we understand each other.

You say
" nothing happens on this earth without his [Lord Krishna's] wish.

This is an interesting point, are you saying on one hand, the drama is predestined, yet we also have to make choices, or, are you saying we have no choice?

Certainly we see God as the director of the drama, but in Raj Yoga He comes at His appointed time and place to return his children to a state of purity. He comes to purify the impure. To do this he gives us knowledge of the beginning, the middle and the end of creation.It is this deep knowledge that purifies the intellect.

We also follow the teaching on the law of karma and now is the time for the settlement of karmic accounts.

You say to "follow God's reasoning is impossible" yet we are told that this is the elevated aim "the children should drown their thoughts in the fathers thoughts" this is the Man mana bhav we wrote about in an earlier post. It's all about following the one father.

In Raj Yoga the incoporeal incarnates in the coporeal. Shiv is the name of the incoporeal, Baba is the coporeal chariot, then we have Shivbaba, but it is always Shiv who teaches.

It is good to have this dialogue.

Perhaps you could explain how you see the drama wheel, how many births we take etc? Is this in your teaching?



Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 23, 2005, 05:24:16 PM
Respected PVS,

You say
"we cannot comprehend God with our intellect and analysis"

Is it not true that we cannot comprehend the Father with our ordinary mind and intellect, but with the gift of the divine intellect, which is opened through knowledge, we are able to catch glimpses of the truth.

 This has been my experience through studying the knowledge of Raj Yoga. The thoughts become engaged in deep spiritual churning of knowledge, so the mind becomes subtle. This especially happens at amrit vela (from 2.00am)then deep realisations occur.

The qualities you speak of "love peace harmony truth", are also the qualities of the mother. In Raj Yoga the mother and father are recognised. We also aspire to imbibe these qualities of the soul.So we have much in common.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Astrid on October 24, 2005, 04:47:33 AM
Sai Ram

Mata, dear brother, glad your computer is functioning again and thank you for all your replies. So let's continue and let me first of all say what a pleasure it is to have this discussion with you.

You say: <<Where would his children find him if he was everywhere?

I ask these questions but also have respect for your path.>>

It is so interesting that starting from the same question we arrive at opposite - most likely only seemingly opposite - conclusions. You see, over the years of my spiritual search I've come to find that the only place I will ever find God (or, to be frank and honest the tiny little aspect of God I am able to get a glimpse of) is right inside me - and inside my fellow humans and all of creation which makes us one. The degree of realisation may differ, but this does not mean that the divine is not there. And once I've found HIM there, that spark that is, that we will always find, the road opens up to greater realisation. We can choose the path of knowledge or the path of love (or that of action) and somewhere on our way we may even discover that all these seemingly different paths may simply be lanes of the same road, because love will lead to knowledgde, knowledge will lead to love and both will have their effect on our actions. (This may be my feminine holistic reasoning which may seem opposed to your masculine analytical one, and it takes both to get us further.)
We agree on the importance of the Sadguru - and we consider SAI BABA our Sadguru.

This leads me to ask you that same question: Where are we supposed to find God if not inside? And if it is true that God is the Creator how could it ever be possible that there's not some of HIM in everything, which I mean with omnipresence ...?

May you be blessed always.

Om Sai Ram

Astrid

Restless was my heart till it found rest in THEE
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: drkalaga on October 24, 2005, 09:47:42 AM
Namaste, my dear Mataji,

Thanks for your spirited reply and continuing discussion.
To answer your queries:

1. God has given us "Buddhi" (intellect) to discern right from wrong and be aware of what is real and what is unreal. Yes, that intellect allows us to make choices. In other words, Free Will. And it is those actions we committ through the free will that generates our "Sanchita Karma" -- effects of deeds of this life.

2. Sai says that we will have as many births as needed to do away with all of our Karma (both Prarabhdha and Sanchita). The former relates to the effects of our past misdeeds. Each life or birth is an opportunity to become closer to Him and chip away at our karmic debts so that we can ultimately be free.  

As per my understanding, only our births are pre-destined; not the acts we do in that life.

Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi (I hope you have heard of Him) always said that the primary source of mortal ignorance stems from the fact that our ego makes us feel as if we are the Doers of all things in life. We are not.

You speak of Raj Yoga and I believe it is one of the many Yogic Paths available to humans to reach Salvation. The primary ones are Bhakti Yoga (devotion), Jnana Yoga (wisdom) and Karma Yoga (actions). Lord Krishna says that the last named one is intended for people who are otherwise unable to practice bhakti or seek knowledge. In Kaliyuga, scriptures speak of the path via a Sadguru and Saint. That is where Shirdi Saibaba comes in.

Once you understand the concept of a master (and Samartha Sadguru, menaing the Capable Master), we do not need anything else. I personally feel that one does not require any other book or yoga or method to learn. SAI and Sai alone is enough.

Sincerely,

= Sriram


quote:
Originally posted by mata

Respected drkalaga,

We agree this is Kaliyuga, the age of darkness and ignorance. What is interesting is that in this Age we also have many Gurus in the world, Teachers, Sages etc. You have your respected Guru we have the Father, Teacher and Satguru the only one who can teach Raj Yoga.

So it is good that we can respect each others path and share spirituality.

You say, "Even the cleanest man will get dirt on him if he walks on the dusty roads" Yes this is true, we become coloured by the company we keep, we understand each other.

You say " nothing happens on this earth without his [Lord Krishna's] wish.

This is an interesting point, are you saying on one hand, the drama is predestined, yet we also have to make choices, or, are you saying we have no choice?

Certainly we see God as the director of the drama, but in Raj Yoga He comes at His appointed time and place to return his children to a state of purity. He comes to purify the impure. To do this he gives us knowledge of the beginning, the middle and the end of creation.It is this deep knowledge that purifies the intellect.

We also follow the teaching on the law of karma and now is the time for the settlement of karmic accounts.

You say to "follow God's reasoning is impossible" yet we are told that this is the elevated aim "the children should drown their thoughts in the fathers thoughts" this is the Man mana bhav we wrote about in an earlier post. It's all about following the one father.

In Raj Yoga the incoporeal incarnates in the coporeal. Shiv is the name of the incoporeal, Baba is the coporeal chariot, then we have Shivbaba, but it is always Shiv who teaches.

It is good to have this dialogue.

Perhaps you could explain how you see the drama wheel, how many births we take etc? Is this in your teaching?







Dr. Sriram Kalaga
Jacksonville, Florida, USA
e-mail: drkalaga@aol.com
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Praveen P V S on October 24, 2005, 03:52:19 PM
Dear Mata ji, it was indeed nice to see your replies filled with a lot of meaning. I really appreciate your interest and quest for truth.

Yes we have much in common, as our goals are same and the approach is also parallel, but our ideologies and understanding of truth might differ.
I would like to qoute here your lines which reminds me of a friend who was also a Raj Yoga follower.

/// This has been my experience through studying the knowledge of Raj Yoga. The thoughts become engaged in deep spiritual churning of knowledge, so the mind becomes subtle. This especially happens at amrit vela (from 2.00am)then deep realisations occur.
///


This shows that the mind can concentrate on any thing and reach subtle Consciousness when it is away from distubences both internal and external. Here I would like to highlight the reason behind reading of Holy scriputres like (Satcharitra). Its a means of cleansing our soul and a tool to control our mind and invoke our divine intellect. All through Satchritra ,Baba clearly demonstrates the need of Bhakthi(Devotion) and understanding.

He indirecly points out that when This Bhakthi and Understanding gets coupled with Shradha(Concentration) and Saburi(Patience) one will be able to reach the state of Subtle consciouseness, irrespective of where and what we are doing.

See this shows again that we have a lot in common (our destination)but the roads that we are taking is just a little different.
[:)]




I love you Baba.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 25, 2005, 03:45:53 PM
Respected Brother Praveen PVS

This is indeed an interesting topic, our paths are different and so it is good to have a discussion in a climate of mutual respect. On your path you read scriptures, on the path of Raj Yoga we churn on the living knowledge that is being spoken now. The scriptures are from the past about the events taking place now.

You say with regard to the reading of scriptures,
 
“It’s a means of cleansing our soul and a tool to control our mind and invoke our divine intellect”

However the scriptures were written from memory after the religious fathers had left their bodies. Needless to say one religious father says one thing another religious father says another thing. The scriptures may be followed yet still the world sinks into deeper and deeper conflict and degradation. No religious father has been able to end falsehood and bring about a world of peace and happiness.

Are not the practices on the path of devotion more or less the same?


In Raj Yoga the path of knowledge, the family path, the Father has said in the murli (flute of knowledge) all the religious scriptures and mythological stories are reminders of events that have taken place in the confluence age.(the confluence age is now, the age between kaliyug and satyug)

Thank you for your perspective on this topic.



Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on October 25, 2005, 03:59:13 PM
The World’s History Repeats Itself

The history and geography of the world repeats identically every 5000 years. This teaching is based on spiritual knowledge passed on by the Supreme Soul Shiva in the confluence age. This is but the teachings of the true Gita as taught by Shiva through Brahma. This narrative relates the World’s Eternal Drama and gives the history of the four ages, its peoples, the coming of the religious leaders and the emerging religions. It shares the spiritual and physical history of souls and the growth in population. I am not an authority on other scriptures although I am familiar with them. I will share this teaching without making comparisons unless there are commonalties.
 
Cycle and the Ages. The world drama is eternal and repeats itself identically every 5000 years. Each cycle has four equal ages consisting of 1250 years each. The ages starting from a major reference point are Golden, Silver, Copper and Iron, and also known in Hindi as Satyug, Treta, Dwapar and Kaliyug. There is a small era of approximately 100 years that overlaps the very end of the iron age and is called the confluence age or Sangam Yug. According to the teachings of Raja Yoga, the overlap is now in progress. The confluence age is very auspicious and will be discussed in much detail and hence the reason a reference point is chosen rather than saying the origin or beginning of the world drama. This conforms to the knowledge that there is no beginning or end and the concept of the eternal world drama.

Purity of the Soul. The new cycle or kalpa begins with the birth of Shri Krishna, the purest and highest among the deities and mankind. He is the first prince of Satyug. This age is characteristic of the highest level of purity of the soul which is 16 Celestial degrees complete or 100 per cent purity. At the end of the Golden age or 1250 years, the Silver age begins. At this time, the level of purity of the soul has declined to 14 Celestial degrees, the soul having lost some purity and accumulated an equal amount of impurity. At the end of the Silver age the degree of purity of the soul is further reduced to 10-12 Celestial degrees. What this means is that after the gold and silver ages or 2500 years, the purity of the soul has been reduced by 4 to 6 Celestial degrees and is now down to about 67 per cent purity. The level of purity continues to decline through the copper age and reaches about 4 to 6 Celestial degrees at the beginning of the iron age. By the end of the iron age, the purity of the soul is somewhere nearing zero Celestial degrees. This says that the soul’s intellect decreases from one of gold at the beginning of the cycle to one of stone at the end of the cycle. The 4 quadrants of the Swastika represent this decline in a clockwise direction as seen in the drama wheel and this is the origin and purpose of the Swastika. It is to be noted that after 3000 years in the cycle, the coming of Jesus the Christ made such a massive impact that the dating was zeroed and hence the BC and AD concept started.

Births, Lifespan, Ages and Population. In the Golden age, the maximum number of births a soul can have is eight. This means that the average lifespan of a person is 150 years. In the Silver age, the maximum number of births possible is 12, giving an average lifespan of 100 years. The maximum number of births are 21 and 42 respectively in the copper and iron ages and the lifespans are reduced drastically as each age is 1250 years. There is one birth in the confluence age making it a total or possible maximum of 84 births in a cycle. The population at the beginning of the Golden age is about 900 thousand and the population at the end of the golden age is approximately 20 million. The population at the end of the Silver age is about 330 million. In 1600 AD, the population was about 500 million, the slow growth resulted from losses due to Noah’s flood at the beginning of the copper age. In 1800 AD it was 1000 million, in 1930AD it was 2000 million, in 1950AD it was 2390 million, in 1966 AD it was 3200 million, in 1980AD it was 4414 million and in 1995 it was about 5550 million. Yes, in the last 100 years the world’s population has more than doubled.

The Confluence Age. The transition period between the iron and golden ages is called the confluence age. In English, the iron age sounds ordinary, normal and routine, but the mention of Kaliyuga, the Hindi translation for the iron age, brings a sense of caution and fear. Kaliyug brings to bear a period in the cycle when irreligiousness and unrighteousness prevailed and where there is great deceit and treachery even from the most trusted. This feeling of mistrust was propagated by the many stories and myths written by those whom we believe to know better and whom we honoured and worshipped. Some of the history got diluted from hand-me down stories in the family heirloom. These were considered as deep secrets. The confluence age is the most elevated and auspicious period in the cycle as it is the period of realization and transformation of ordinary man into deities. This is the period where spirituality is on the rise and the elevated teaching of the Supreme assists man to make effort to conquer the five main vices of anger, greed, ego, lust and attachment. This is no ordinary achievement. This elevated teachings enables one to change from vicious to virtuous, from devilish to divine and impure to pure. In sangam yug, it is said that both man and the elements must change from tamopradhan to satopradhan. It is to change from ordinary man (nar) to an elevated man (Narayan) or deity. For those who receive this realization, they know this era to be the confluence age or as it is written in the Gita, "Purushottam Sangam Yuga", the most auspicious age. For others, it is still the iron age or Kaliyuga.

Confluence Age and Festivals. All the major Hindu religious festivals have their origin in the confluence age and their roots are the embodiment of spirituality. The first, Shivratri is the incarnation of the Supreme Soul Shiva into Brahma. Here Shiva is the name of God and "ratri" means night. Night here means the dark ages of copper and iron where irreligiousness prevailed and unrighteousness was propagated by the vices of anger, greed, ego, lust and attachment. These five vices are known as, maya, evil, satan or Rawan. Shiva teaches gyan (knowledge), yoga (remembrance), dharna (inculcation) and seva (service) through Brahma, hence the creation of Brahmins, mouth-born progenies of Brahma. This is the reason that Brahma is unmistakably referred to as the Creator, but it is Shiva who creates Brahmins through the mouth of Brahma. This teaching of Shiva is really the knowledge as written in the Gita. Yes, the Gita was spoken by Shiva through Brahma in the confluence age, but it was written in the beginning of the copper age some 2500 years later by Gita Vyas. It is for this reason that the next festival is celebrated as Gita Jayanti. Saraswati, the adopted daughter of Brahma, imbibed this teaching and assisted Brahma in the establishment of the new world order and the destruction of the old kaliyugi world. For this Saraswati Jayanti is quietly celebrated next and preceding Holi. In fact, Holi is the celebration of purity and Holika represents the burning of the vices and this old Kaliyugi world. The next festival is Nau Ratum and this signifies the Shakti Power of Durga in her nine forms. This is the true meaning of "Shiv Shakti" as it represents the combined form of purity and divinity, taking the energy and sustenance from the Supreme Soul Shiva, to destroy the demon forces of evil. This is the reason Saraswati is shown riding a lion and Durga a tiger. Symbolically, they have tamed the ferocity of the animals to their original peaceful nature. Then Raksha Bandhan is to take a vow of purity with Shiva, demonstrating complete purity. At this stage, these confluence age festivals represents the purification of all souls as well as the elements. Here the stage is set for the re-creation and establishment of the new world and Dashera is then celebrated signifying the conquest of the ten vices, five male and five female. The new world is then ready for the birth of the first Prince of Satyug, Shri Krishna, and this is celebrated as Krishen Janamastami. Radha is born a few years later as the first Princess of Satyug. Divali is then celebrated as the coronation of Lakshmi and Narayan as the first Empress and Emperor of Satyug and this event marks the official beginning the golden age as 01-01-01, meaning the first day of the first month of the first year of the golden age. This is about 25 years from the start of the new cycle. This is the reason Divali is celebrated as the beginning of a new year. It is to be noted that the childhood days of Lakshmi and Narayan is that of Radha and Krishna. In reality, Saraswati and Brahma, Radha and Krishna are but the same souls, but in successive births. In married form, Radha and Krishna becomes Lakshmi and Narayan. Looking at it in terms of births, Radha and Krishna have their first births in Satyug and their eighty-fourth birth in Kaliyug as Saraswati and Brahma. Vishnu and Mahalakshmi each represent the dual form of Lakshmi and Narayan. The month of Kartic is the most auspicious because it represents transformation, newness, re-creation and change from the old to the new. Kartic means to wash away the vices by bathing with the knowledge of the Gita for purification and it is only symbolic that you bathe with the water of the Ganges.

Births and Ages. The Golden age represents the Sun Dynasty also called Suryavanshi. Here, because the maximum possible number of births is eight, there are eight successive dynasties ruled by Lakshmi and Narayan "the First" through "the Eighth". Then the cycle enters the Moon Dynasty or Chandravanshi. Here the rule is now handed down to Ram and Sita " the First to the Twelfth". They rule through the twelve kingdoms as there is a maximum of twelve births in the silver age. Note here, the subtle title change from Emperors and Empresses to Kings and Queens and Dynasties to Kingdoms. But even more subtly is the change from the female name as the lead to the second position as in "Radha and Krishna" and "Lakshmi and Narayan "to that of "Ram and Sita". This emphasizes the decline in the level of purity with titles. Then enters the copper age when Abraham started his rule introducing spiritual law and order. This introduction subtly points out that immorality was in the increase and purity was on the decrease. The deities were changing from being viceless and were now becoming more vicious in successive births as the cycle progressed.

Major Religions of the Cycle. The first religion in the cycle is the Original Ancient Deity Religion known as the "Adi Sanatan Devi Devata Dharma". This religion had it seed in the Supreme Soul Shiva and its roots in the Brahmin Clan that was created by Shiva through Brahma. In fact the sun and moon dynasties had one religion in the deity religion, one language in "Pure Hindi", one dynasty or one government with no ministers, no advisors and no opposition, and one people. Governance was the combined form of Spirituality and Administration. Everything was pure or satopradhan and everything was in abundance. This period was known as Paradise, Heaven, the Land of Jeevanmukti, Satyug or Ram Rajya. These two ages of gold and silver are known as the Kingdom of Rama. The two ages of copper and iron are known as the Kingdom of Rawan, Hell or Rawan Rajya. At the end of the silver age and the beginning of the copper age, the vices first entered the cycle. Yes, "Heaven and Hell" are the two halves of the Kalpa and exists right here on earth. It is at beginning of the copper age the other religions emerged. There are four main religions that emerged and it is from these thousands others sprang up. The four main religions in order of appearance are the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Christians and the Moslems. All others are some derivative in the main four. The Hindus had its roots in the Deity religion, whereas the Christians and Moslems had their roots in Abraham and stricter demarcation on these were placed by Jesus the Christ and Prophet Mohammed. It is in the beginning of the copper age that the path of devotion(Bhakti) started. Bhakti is known as the Night of Brahma, whereas knowledge is the Day of Brahma. Disinterest or Viragya existed in the confluence age. Today, there are literally thousands of branches of other religions that have emerged from the main four tubes and the original ancient Deity religion is completely forgotten and unheard off.

Spiritual and Physical Entropy. Entropy is the natural process where orderly things become disorderly, if not maintained or sustained. Even when transforming energy from one form into another, some is not converted because of inefficiency and this energy is considered waste or pollution. The entire physical environment has degenerated and is now impure because of both entropy and man’s greed. The physical world is undergoing massive changes because of the effects of the hole in the ozone layer, potential global warming, forest devastation, infertile soil, and pollution of the air, sea and land. This is physical entropy. Similarly the soul has become very impure because of the vices and this is called spiritual entropy or degradation of the soul. At this time in the cycle, both the environment and the soul are lame, degraded and impure and neither can help each other. It is at this time that the Supreme incarnates and in an incognito way silently and secretly destroys the vices with the help of his children who have gotten the realization. Nature reacts in catastrophic and cataclysmic ways to rejuvenate the environment through natural calamities, earthquakes, plagues and most of all being uncooperative in the service to man. The events describes fully Armageddon (Rev 16:16) also called the Mahabharat war. The knowledge of the Gita is the incognito and subtle way to destroy Rawan, whereas the Mahabharat war is the physical way to destroy Rawan and it is the essence of Holika. The Mahabharat war is the gateway to the land of liberation(mukti) and the life of liberation(jeevanmukti), the golden age. This is the dawn of the golden age, the start of a new cycle.

Purification of the soul. There are two ways to cleanse the soul. One is to make effort by living a life of purity in thoughts, words and actions through the pilgrimage of remembrance of the Father. That is to perform "kartic snaan" with the knowledge of the Gita and inspire the Mahabharat war which is the war of the vices and virtues. The other is to face the wrath of "Judgment Day" or " Dharamraj" at the end of the cycle. All souls must be purified before returning to Soul’s World or Paramdham, the abode of all souls as well as the Supreme Soul. The souls are seated numberwise in soul’s world or Paramdham according to their level of purity and effort made before purification. This is called the Souls Tree. The souls then come down numberwise to play their part on earth and can take a maximum of 84 births depending on the time in the cycle they make their first entry. This is called the Tree of Human Beings or The Kalpa Tree. There are approximately 5.5 billion souls.

Conclusion
. The Eternal World Drama is cyclical and repeats itself identically every 5000 years. After the rule of Lakshmi and Narayan and Ram and Sita in the Golden and Silver ages that lasts 2500 years, Abraham, Buddha, Christ and Mohammed and Shankaracharya will return with their following and the cycle will continue to repeat itself identically, as we know from the time of Abraham. We are nearing the end of this cycle. Nostradamus together with many others have predicted the coming of the new age within the next generation. Christ will return approximately 3000 years from now and Mohammed about 500 years after Christ. The geography of the world makes two major changes in the cycle. The original world was one continuous land mass named Bharat and with the cataclysmic events that culminated in Noah’s flood, the geography changed to what we know today as the five continents with the respective oceans, seas and rivers. The second change is with Armageddon or the mahabharat war and the return of pure Bharat as one landmass. So the geography repeats itself and as the immortal saying goes " History Repeats Itself"
 
 

JAISAIRAM!!!!!!!!

subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 25, 2005, 04:30:40 PM
Respected Sister Astrid,

It is indeed a pleasure to discuss aspects of spiritual knowledge,


You say
“You see, over the years of my spiritual search I've come to find that the only place I will ever find God (or, to be frank and honest the tiny little aspect of God I am able to get a glimpse of) is right inside me - and inside my fellow humans and all of creation which makes us one.”

And,

“This leads me to ask you that same question: Where are we supposed to find God if not inside? And if it is true that God is the Creator how could it ever be possible that there's not some of HIM in everything, which I mean with omnipresence ...?

Perhaps this may go some way to answer your question, it is an extract from clarification of murli and the points of knowledge are collected in a document called the True Geeta.

“The song: "Having found you we have found the world", --which seed is such within whom the whole world is merged? That one is Prajapita, the seed of the human world. In this seed form Prajapita, the essence of the whole world is within. Take the example for a tree, the seed of that tree is very small and the tree is very big but within that seed the whole tree is merged. That is why in the Gita of the Sanskrit, it has been said, I am not within those leaves but those leaves, the whole tree including the branches and roots are all within me. So which seed is such within whom there is the nature, habits, characters, and sanskars of all the human souls. The best of the best and the worst of the worst is all within this seed of Prajapita. It is in this Prajapita seed that the Parampita Shiv Jotibindu enters and reveals himself: otherwise there can be no recognition of Prajapita. Within the cycle of 84 births, the souls of Ram and Krishna who come into the cycle of birth and death, cannot even recognize themselves. It is only at Sangamyug when Paramatma Supreme soul Bap comes into this earth and then gives us children the introduction of himself and the recognition of ourselves. The song having found you … , is it on finding Shiv jotibindu that we have found the whole world? Ours is the pravirti marg (household/family path). The pravirti is combined form of the soul and the body. Paramatma Shiv is a soul and Prajapita is a human with a body. He is the chariot of Paramatma. By combining both, the form of Paramatma is created which can be recognized, otherwise Paramatma cannot be recognized. So on having recognized the Paramatma Bap is like having found the whole world. When the seed is in your hand then the whole tree is in your hand too. These things are not to be spoken, they have to be understood. Having found you, we have found the whole world. “
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Praveen P V S on October 25, 2005, 05:06:37 PM
Dear Mata ji thats a good observation indeed. I would like to add in here something which I think plays a very important role while reading Holy Scriputres.

As you rightly said
"The scriptures may be followed yet still the world sinks into deeper and deeper conflict and degradation."

I feel the main root cause for this is within us. The sole purpose of Holy scipture is to assure Humans that nothing is immpossible if one has the will for it. They are Path makers or rather they are like Sign Boards  showing the path that can and should be followed. Now from that point what ever we do depends on us. Here our intelect comes into play in understanding what is good and what is bad and i think "Will" also plays a main role at this juncture to choose the right path and follow it. So thats the reason why world is sinking deeper and deeper into conflict and degradation, may be because of lack of understanding (which is very important) or may be because of lack of Will to follow the right path.
Baba has given us intellect to differentiate between right and wrong.

At every juncture of our life we are given many choices and the choice we make will make a differance. Holy Scriptures (Irrespective of which religion) just help us to choose the right option by showing us some proofs (as you rightly said)"the Father has said in the murli (flute of knowledge) all the religious scriptures and mythological stories are reminders of events that have taken place in the confluence age.(the confluence age is now, the age between kaliyug and satyug)" that happened in Past.

The Reason why no religeous father was able to remove this degeneration is mainly because many chose the wrong choice and followed the way of corruption, hatered, and other evil thoughts. When humans dont use their intellect given by god to understand then what can any religious scripture, religious father or religiouse practice do?

I thank Baba for giving me this opportunity to look into my self in the way of this discussion, and I thank mata ji for sharing  knowledge on this issue.

I love you Baba.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Praveen P V S on October 25, 2005, 05:09:36 PM
Subhadra behan, thanks for sharing that data on ages. It was a good learning exeriance for me.
Thank you Baba.

I love you Baba.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 26, 2005, 10:20:44 AM
Without any prejudice......to none and all........

I have heard: A Chinese man once went to the court of the emperor of Iran and said, "I have come from China, and I am a very great artist. I can make paintings such as you have never seen before."

The emperor said, "Then make them here. But remember, there is no shortage of painters in our court and I have seen very wonderful pictures."

The Chinese painter said, "I am ready to meet any challenge."

The best among the court painters was selected to compete. Then the emperor warned his painter, "Use all your talent, do your very best. This is now a question of the prestige of the empire. See that you are not defeated by this foreigner."

They were given six months to complete their work. The Iranian painter began his work very seriously.

With the help of ten to twenty co-workers he covered his whole wall with beautiful pictures. News of his paintings reached distant regions, and people came from afar to see his work. But a greater miracle than this was happening. The Chinese artist said, "I need no implements or materials for my work, nor any paints either. I insist on one condition only -- that the curtain covering my wall not be removed till the picture is finished."

Each morning he would go behind his curtain, and reappear in the evening quite exhausted, with drops of perspiration on his forehead. But it was a matter of great perplexity, mystery and wonder that he did not carry any brush or paints with him when he disappeared behind the curtain. Neither were there ever any traces of color on his hands, nor any spots of paint on his clothes, and he carried no brush in his hands. The emperor began to wonder whether he was crazy. How could there be any competition under such circumstances? But it was necessary to wait for six months to fulfill the condition.

With great impatience everyone waited for the six months to pass. The news about the pictures of the Iranian painter reached far and wide, and along with this news, the word also spread about his crazy competitor who had entered the competition without any paints. You can't imagine how eagerly the people waited for those six months to pass.

After six months the emperor went to see the pictures. He was spellbound on seeing the pictures of the Iranian painter. He had seen many paintings in his life, but he had never seen paintings of such unsparing skill. Then he requested the Chinese painter to show his work. He removed the curtain covering his wall. On seeing it the emperor was very much puzzled. It was the same picture. The Chinese painter had created the same picture as the Iranian, but with one additional feature: it was not painted on the wall, but emerged from twenty feet deep inside the wall. The emperor asked, "How have you done this? What is this magic?"

He replied, "I have done no magic. But I am an expert in making mirrors, so I turned the wall into a mirror by rubbing it continuously for six months. The picture which you are looking at is that of the Iranian painter's on the opposite wall. I simply turned the wall into a mirror."

He won the competition, because shimmering in the mirror the Iranian painting became infinitely more profound than its original. The Iranian painting acquired great depth when seen in the mirror. It became a three-dimensional picture. The Iranian one was two-dimensional; it had no depth. The Chinese painter's picture gained a three-dimensional depth. The emperor asked him, "Why did you not tell us in the beginning that you only know how to make mirrors?"

The Chinese painter replied, "I am not a painter, I am a sadhu, a monk."


Contd...
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on October 26, 2005, 10:25:10 AM
Without any prejudice.......to none and all..

The emperor said, "This becomes more and more interesting. First you didn't tell us that you make mirrors, and now you tell us you are a sadhu. Why should a sadhu make mirrors?"

The Chinese painter replied, "I have been making only mirrors since I made myself a mirror and saw the world in it. Just as I turned this wall into a clean mirror by continuously rubbing and cleaning it, so I made myself a mirror, pure as crystal, by keeping constant watch on myself. And such a beautiful image of this world as I have seen within was never seen without. The day on which I saw and realized the world within me, I became like a mirror. All the animate and inanimate objects of the world have penetrated within me."

We will be able to see God on the day on which our heart becomes like a mirror. Then all the world enters into us, and the whole world becomes a mirror for us also. Then we are able to see ourself every moment, everywhere. But the whole world cannot be turned into a mirror; only our own self can be turned into a mirror. That is why the seeker after truth begins by making a mirror of himself.

To know the alchemy and art of making ourself a mirror, three points are to be understood. First, perhaps it is not correct to talk of making a mirror of the self, because we are all mirrors already, but covered with dust. Our work is to clean and polish our mirror and make it bright and clear.

A mirror is not a mirror if dust is allowed to settle on it; then it does not reflect anything. Its capacity to reflect is destroyed when it is covered with dust. We are such mirrors -- the dust has accumulated on us. Just as dust collects on a mirror carried along a busy road, so it collects as we pass through countless lives. It is gathered in many many ways from our desires, our innumerable actions, and from our becoming constantly the doer. No one knows what a heap of dust is collected -- the dust of actions, of becoming doers of actions, of ego, of thoughts, of desires and feelings. So there is a very deep layer of dust on us.

The important matter is to remove it. If it is swept away, we are mirrors again. And everything is like a mirror for one who is himself a mirror. Why? -- because whatever we are is seen by us on all sides. To understand this, keep this important sutra in mind: "We see only what we are, we never see anything else but this."

Whatever is seen by us is always our projection. Always we are that. It is only our face we see. If no good is seen by us in the world outside, then it is because the seed of such a view is within us. If only ugliness is seen in the world outside, we should know that ugliness has taken a firm root within us. If faithlessness is seen everywhere outside, we should know that faithlessness is within us. The projector is within, only the screen is without, and we go on projecting onto it.

We go on expanding whatever is within us onto the screen.

If God is not seen in the world outside it means simply that we do not experience the divine within us. He who realizes God within begins to see God instantly in all objects. Then there is no other way. Then he will see God even in a stone. But at the moment only stone is seen in God. For me there is no other meaning to the word materialist but this: he is a materialist whose spiritual heart has turned to stone. One whose heart within is like a stone sees stones everywhere. For me, he is a spiritualist whose spiritual heart is not like a stone but throbbing, living, pulsating, vibrant.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Praveen P V S on October 26, 2005, 12:38:13 PM
Dear Ramesh Bhai,

And excellent excerpt...[:)]..
I loved the way the story and its inherent meaning are explained. It is very simple and clear as Baba.

I love you Baba.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: mata on October 27, 2005, 04:13:37 PM
Respected Bother Subhasrini,

This is an interesting article; however it does contain a number of inaccuracies and so the following comment will be confined to the first and most important mistake.

You say;

“The new cycle or kalpa begins with the birth of Shri Krishna, the purest and highest among the deities and mankind. He is the first prince of Satyug”

The point here is that Shri Krishna is a child, so the question we have to ask is, who is the father of that child, for surely it is he that will be the most elevated of all human beings.

The father is the Ram soul, the one whom the first half of the kalpa is named after i.e. Ram Raja. It is this soul who is the number one hero of the world drama, the one who at the moment is playing an in cognito part. How can he be recognized, only through the gyan that is spoken through him.

If any brother or sister would like to read a more detailed account in response to the “Ages” post, please contact me by email. It does not seem appropriate to post anything further here.

This is to respect the path that is followed on this site.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Astrid on October 27, 2005, 04:52:44 PM
Sai Ram

Mata, dear, only two days and I was already missing your posts. I immensely treasure your respect for any path, your openness and willingness to share. Hope, we will read from you again but whether or not, wherever you go and whatever you do, may the blessings be with you.

Om Sai Ram

Astrid

Restless was my heart till it found rest in THEE
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Astrid on October 27, 2005, 05:21:47 PM
Sai Ram

.... looks like I want to keep this going a bit: dear Mata, in answering your answer to me (thank you, dear) I totally agree with you that everything is in HIM. Still, to my experience the fact that everything is in HIM and HE is in everything are no opposites but One. And again we share the same understanding that these things cannot be grasped intellectually but can only be beheld.

Om Sai Ram

Astrid


Restless was my heart till it found rest in THEE
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on November 28, 2005, 08:46:10 AM
You cannot find God by the intellect.

But, you can find Him by feeling, meditation, experience, and

realisation.



JAISAIRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on November 28, 2005, 09:16:33 AM
FROM THE BEGINNING, TRUTH IS CLEAR. From the beginning, truth is not hidden. From the beginning, truth is just in front of us. From the beginning, there is nothing other than the truth. Something has gone wrong with us, not with the truth.

People always ask: Why is God invisible? : He is not. We are blind.

Don't say God is invisible. God is the all that surrounds us, within and without. God is not invisible -- we have lost the capacity to see. God is herenow. God is all that is. God is just a name for the totality, the whole. In millions of forms he is visible. In the flowing river, he is the flow. In the red flower, he is the redness.

God is not invisible. Somehow either we have gone blind or we have become too attached to our blinkers. We remain blindfolded. Our religions, our culture, our society, our conditionings, the civilization and all that nonsense just function as a blindfold. We are not allowed to open our eyes. We have become accustomed to living with closed eyes.

We have completely forgotten that we have eyes and that we can open them. We have become so afraid of opening our eyes, of seeing the truth, weu have become so attuned to lies, that to see truth is going to be very devastating. Our whole image will fall down, will be shattered. Our whole house of playing cards will simply fall down and disappear. We have lived too much in dreams and desires, and we have become deep down afraid of the real.

Don't take God as invisible. God is absolutely visible here and now.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on November 28, 2005, 02:00:46 PM
W H O   I S   G O D ?    


The Petromax does not talk, but it shines and sheds light all around.

The jessamine does not speak, but it wafts its fragrance everywhere.

The lighthouse sounds no drum, but sends its friendly light to the mariner.

The Unseen beats no gong, but Its omnipresence is felt by the dispassionate and discriminating sage.

Behind all names and forms is the one nameless, formless Essence.

 Behind all governors is the one Supreme Governor of governors.

Behind all lights is the one Light Of lights. Behind all sounds, there is the soundless Supreme Silence. Behind all teachers is the one Supreme Guru of Gurus.

Behind all these perishable objects is the one imperishable Absolute.

Behind all these motions is the one motionless Infinite. Behind time,minutes, and days is the one timeless Eternity.

Behind hatred, riots, and wars is the one hidden Love.

God is the totality of all that exists, both animate and inanimate, sentient and insentient.

He is free from ills and limitations.

He is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

He has no beginning, middle, or end.

He is the indweller in all beings. He controls from within.

God is all in all.

God is the only reality in this universe.

The existence of things is by the light of God.

God is ever living.

All depend on Him.

He is not depending on any.

He is the Truth.

God is the end or goal of all Yoga Sadhanas.

He is the Centre towards which all things strive.

 He is the highest purpose or highest good of the world.

You have the urge of hunger.

There is food to appease the hunger.

You have the urge of thirst.

There is water to quench the thirst.

There is the urge to be always happy.

There must be something to satisfy this urge. T

his something is God, an embodiment of happiness.

God, Immortality, Freedom, Perfection, Peace, Bliss, Love are

synonymous terms.

 

JAISAIRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on November 28, 2005, 02:02:44 PM
W H A T   I S   G O D ?  

    What is God?

It is hard to tell.

But, when I look at the Ganga, I know it is God.

When I see the jessamine, I know it is God.

When I behold the blue sky, I know it is God.

When I hear the chirping of birds, I know it is God.

When I taste honey, I know it is God.

The Supreme is indefinable, though scholars give intellectual accounts of It which are not absolutely true.

Every man has his own conception of God.

 The God of a military man wears a helmet.

The God of a China-man has a flat nose and a pipe for smoking opium.

The God of a Hindu has marks on his forehead, and wears a rosary and a garland of flowers.

 The God of a Christian wears a Cross.

For some, God has wings.

A buffalo will think that God is a very big buffalo.

Such an anthropomorphic conception of God is obviously puerile.

The greatest and most important thing in all the world is to get a right concept of God, because your belief about God governs your entire life.

JAISAIRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!



subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on November 28, 2005, 02:05:23 PM
I S   T H E R E   A   G O D ?    


    God is beyond human imagination, but he is a living reality.

 Brahman is no metaphysical abstraction.

It is the fullest and the most real being.

The existence of God cannot be proved by scientific experimentation.

The Absolute baffles the mind of even the greatest scholar.

It eludes the grasp of even the mightiest intellect.

It is experienced as pure consciousness, where intellect dies, scholarship perishes, and the entire being itself is completely lost in It.

All is lost, and all is found.

You want laboratory proofs?

Very fine, indeed!

You wish to limit the illimitable, all-pervading God in your test-tube, blow-pipe, and chemicals.

God is the source for your chemicals.

He is the substratum for your atoms, electrons, and molecules.

Without Him, no atom or electron will move, He is the inner ruler.

It is God who lends power to our senses, perception to our mind, discernment to our intellect, strength to our limbs.

It is through His will that we live and die.

But man vainly imagines that he is the actor and the enjoyer Manis a mere nothing before the almighty, governing Power that directs the movement in the universe.

God's will expresses itself everywhere as law.

     The law of gravitation, cohesion, relativity, cause and effect, the laws of electricity, chemistry, physics, all the psychic laws, are expressions of God's will.

As we explain everything within nature by the law of cause and effect, so also, nature as a whole must be explained.

It must have some cause. This cause must be different from the effect.

It must be some supernatural entity, i.e., God.

Nature is not a mere chance collection of events, a mere jumble of accidents, but an orderly affair.

The planets move regularly in their orbits; seeds grow into trees regularly; the seasons succeed each other in order.

Now, nature is Jada, insentient.

It cannot order itself.

It requires the existence of an intelligent being-God-who is responsible for it.

Even Einstein, the scientist, was strongly convinced of the creation of the universe by a Supreme Intelligence.

Though you do not see the stars in the daytime, yet they do exist. Though you cannot see the sun during a cloudy day, yet it does exist.

Even so, though you cannot see God with these physical eyes, yet He does exist.

If you get the divine eye or the eye of intuition by the practice of meditation, you will behold Him. God is self-proved.

He does not want any proof, because He is the basis for the act or process of proving.

 

JAISAIRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on November 28, 2005, 02:08:24 PM
W H E R E   I S   G O D ?


    Where is God?

There is nowhere where He is not.

Just as one thread penetrates all the flowers in a garland, so also, one Self penetrates all these living beings.

He is hidden in all beings and forms, like oil in seed, butter in milk, mind in brain, Prana in the body, foetus in the womb, sun behind the clouds, fire in wood, vapour in the atmosphere, salt in water, scent in flowers, sound in the gramophone records, gold in quartz, microbes in blood.

God dwells in all beings as life and consciousness. God is in the roar of a lion, the song of a bird, and the cry of a baby.

     Feel His presence everywhere. See God in the wings, of a butterfly, in the letters Alpha and Omega, in the cough of a patient, in the murmur of a brook, in the sound of a bell.

Behold the wonder of the Lord's face in every object of this world. Every breath that flows in the nose, every beat that throbs in the heart, every artery that pulsates in the body, every thought that arises in the mind, speaks to you that God is near.

Every flower that wafts fragrance, every fruit that attracts you, every gentle breeze that blows, every river that smoothly flows, speaks of God and His mercy.

The vast ocean with its powerful waves, the mighty Himalayas with its glaciers, the bright sun and stars in the wide sky, the lofty tree with its branches, the cool springs in the hills and dales, tell you of His omnipotence.

The music of the sweet singers, the lectures of the Powerful orators, the poems of the reputed poets, the inventions of the able scientists, the operations of the dexterous surgeons, the utterances of the holy saints, the thoughts of the Bhagavad Gita, the revelations of theUpanishads, speak of God and His wisdom.

 Everything is God.

Good is God.

Misfortune is God.

Greet Him in everything and rest peacefully in bliss.

 God pervades the entire universe.

He walks in the garb of a beggar.

He moans in pain in the guise of the sick.

He wanders in the forest clad in rags.

    Open your eyes.

See Him in all.

 Serve all.

Love all.

Feel the Divine Presence everywhere in every form, in every thought, in every feeling an in every sentiment, in every movement, in every emotion.

God, seen through the senses, is matter.

God, seen through the intellect, is mind.

 God, seen through the spirit, is Atman or the Self.

Thou art indwelt by the Lord. He is the inner ruler, Antaryamin, guarding and controlling your life.

He is in you and you are in Him.

He is quite close to you.

He is not very far, but is nearer to you than you are to yourself.

 You were thinking in the beginning that He could be found only in Mount Kailas, Ramesvaram, Mecca, Jerusalem, sky or heaven.

You had very vague ideas. This body is His moving temple.

The sanctum sanctorum is the chamber of your own heart.

Close your eyes.

Withdraw your Indriyas from the sensual objects.

Search Him in thy heart with one-pointed mind, devotion, and pure love.

You will surely find Him.

He is waiting there with outstretched arms to embrace you.

If you cannot find Him there, you cannot find Him anywhere else.

 

JAISAIRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on November 28, 2005, 02:12:12 PM
H O W   T O   R E A L I S E   G O D ?


     God is a question of supply and demand.

If you really yearn for His Darshan, He will reveal Himself to you in an instant.

You need neither art nor science, neither study nor erudition for God-realisation, but faith, purity, and devotion.

Combine all the love you cherish towards all worldly objects-wife, son, wealth, property, relatives, friends-and then apply this combined love towards God.

You will realise in this very second.

To serve God and Mammon at the same time is impossible.

You cannot enjoy the bliss of the Self and the sensual pleasure in one and the same cup.

You cannot have light and darkness at the same time.

The Lord demands your whole heart.

 Reduce yourself into zero before God.

Only then will God completely take care of and guide you.

Only then surrender becomes complete.

Forget your own interests, your own longings, your own desires.

You will attain the bliss of the Supreme Self.

Crucify, sacrifice the lower self, if you wish to have union with God.

Empty your egoism.

You will be filled with God.

Lose your personality.

You will find the Divine Life.

You will realise God.

    With time and faith in the commitment to practice frequently, (daily meditating is ideal), during your meditation time you may "leave the moment."

A feeling of separation exists where the mind is clear, clean and blank.

You will still hear sounds around you, but they will not interfere with your meditation.

Sometimes you may weep -- you may not even be aware of what is making you weep. It is your own emotions having a voice of their own.

Sometimes you may feel a smile across your face -- that is contentment showing itself.

Sometimes you may fall asleep and awaken truly refreshed.

The Meditation Room-this is where you will begin your journey into a new level of relaxation and awareness.

Here are some hints to get you started:

1. Make sure you are in a quiet room with no distractions.

2. Allow some time for your meditation. You can start with 5 mins and progress to as long as you want to.

3. Try to meditate at the same time and place if possible.

4. Be patient. It is a gradual process of unlearning and freeing yourself of years of layers of stress and worry. You are teaching your mind to relax, be patient with yourself.

    Sadhana is spiritual movement consciously systematized.

Sadhana is the purpose for which we have come to this place.

Abhyasa and Sadhana are synonymous terms.

The object of Sadhana is to release life from the limitations with which it is bound.

Sadhana is a lifelong process.

Every day, every hour, every minute, is an onward march.

Obstacles are innumerable in this great voyage.

But, so long as you hold God as thy guide, there is nothing to worry about.

 You are sure to reach the other shore.

Some people have curiosity for the spiritual line.

They have no real thirsting for liberation.

They think that they will get certain powers or Siddhis (psychic powers) if they do some Yogic practices.

When they do not attain the powers, they lose patience and give up the practices, abandon the spiritual path, and pooh-pooh the Yogis and Yoga.

Mere curiosity will not help you to attain any spiritual progress. Curiosity-mongering is more abominable than mischief-mongering.

Introspect. Analyze your thoughts and find out whether you have real spiritual hunger or mere curiosity-mongering.

Transmute curiosity-mongering into real thirsting for salvation by constant Satsang (association with the wise), study of good religious books, prayer, Japa, and meditation.

You must have interest and liking in your Sadhana.

You must understand well the technique and benefits of Sadhana. You must select a Sadhana that is suitable for you.

You must have the ability and capacity to do Sadhana.

Then alone you will have joy in do ing the Sadhana and full success in it.

JAISAIRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on December 31, 2005, 09:00:48 AM
JAI SAI RAM!!!

God is not a person but only a presence. God is not a flower but only a fragrance.

Thinking of god as a person has led humanity into many many troubles. That becomes the root of all idolatry. Then people start creating images, either in stone or wood, or there are also images of thought -- concepts, theories -- but the moment we think of god as a person we have given him a limitation. We have forced a form on something which is formless. We have put a label on something which cannot be labelled. We have categorised god, and he is beyond all categories.

Think of god as a presence. Then even a solitary tree in the field, if you can feel its presence, is god, is divine. Bow down to it. Wherever you can feel the presence of life, of love, there is god. Then your god is free. Then you can find him anywhere -- you need not go to any temple or church in particular; this whole earth is a temple. And all the peoples of the world are his manifestations -- animals, birds too.

... Just start feeling the presence of things.

Have you ever observed the presence of a tree? It is so tangible if you just be there. You can almost embrace it... you can touch it; the tree is not just there without its presence. We don't feel the presence because we are unaware, because we ourselves are not present to the moment; otherwise everything has its own presence. A bird sitting silently on the roof has its own presence and a flower is surrounded by its own aura and presence.

Think of god as presence, pure presence... not like a flower but like a fragrance, because a flower has a form -- the fragrance is only felt, it cannot be seen. God is like that.

OM SAI RAM!!!
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on January 01, 2006, 09:31:20 AM
JAI SAI RAM!!!

Man is not just man, that is only appearance; but hidden behind the appearance is god himself. And it is not so only with man; it is so with animals, birds, trees, rocks. God is hidden everywhere. God is equivalent to existence.

And this is the whole search of religion. Religion is not worshipping in the temples or worshipping some stone statue or praying in the church. Those are all rituals. Real religion is an enquiry into your own being. It is digging into your own self to know who you are. And the day one knows 'Who am I?' one has known god.

One starts as man; one ends as god. One starts as a seeker; one ends as the sought. And then there is really great laughter, because we have been thinking that we are in search of god and all the time we have been god himself. The very search was preventing us from knowing. We never gave enough time to be quiet and to see who we are. The search was too engaging and we rushed from one place to another, one life to another, one form to another. We were in such a hurry that we never found a time to look within: 'Who is this seeker?' We became too interested in the object of the search and we forgot the subject of the search.

And it is there in the very subjectivity that the object is hidden.
 
God is not to be found somewhere else -- god is to be found in you. Whenever you are silent, not going anywhere, no movement of any desires disturbing you, no ripples in your mind, suddenly, it is there... it is you! And then there is great bliss. Then one regains the paradise lost.

OM SAI RAM!!!
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: SS91 on January 03, 2006, 08:14:30 AM
How to understand God ?



Every soul in the process of it’s evolution, life after life, tries to understand God slowly. Infact, this understanding of God, more and more, is the real purpose of evolution of souls.

If man is better equipped with cerebral capacity than a monkey, it is for understanding God at the first stage and then realizing God at the ultimate stage that he has been given the capacity or nature has given these capacities to him.

Man is a superior animal only because it has a better physical and mental machinery but because he has the capacity to imagine, accept seek and realize God.

All the religions, scriptures have prescribed the methods on how one should try to understand God. These are called different paths.

All the realized souls and saints have also spoken about the same. Baba used to tell His devotees at Shirdi that there are many paths to reach God.

One of the paths goes through Shirdi, meaning thereby to follow Him. Any devotee following the path shown by Shri Sai Nath Maharaj will certainly understand and realize God.

Given by Guruji.
saibaba.com


JAISAIRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

subhasrini
OM SAI SRI SAI JAYA JAYA SAI!!!
Let us pray at the feet of Sai Baba who is the incarnation of all gods and protector of all, to show mercy on us, and increase our devotion towards him.
Title: Re: WHO IS GOD?
Post by: Ramesh Ramnani on January 06, 2006, 12:17:33 PM
People go to the temples, to the priest, to the scriptures, they carry their own scriptures -- but nobody looks where God is. And God is all around, but your eyes are full of belief, hence you cannot see him. Your eyes are full of prejudice, hence you cannot see him. Only empty eyes can see him, can discover him -- only the eyes of a child.

And remember, that at the deepest core of your being you still have those eyes of a child -- wondering, inquiring, full of the mystery of life, surprised at each and everything, surprised at ordinary things... pebbles on the shore, seashells on the shore. And the child starts collecting as if they are diamonds. For the child there is nothing ordinary; everything is extraordinary. That child has not died in you! It never dies. It has been only covered with knowledge, belief; it has been lost in words. Just search and you will find your childhood again in you.

And this will be far more important than it was when you were really a child, because now you have known the ways of the world and the ways of the mind and you are frustrated.

You have seen a thousand and one things and nothing satisfies. You have known many things and yet you don't know a thing. Now going back to your childhood, to the source of wonder, joy, mystery, and awe, you will again be able to look around... and then trees will be more green, and the songs of the birds will be more poetic, and the people around you will have auras -- they have! just you cannot see. You yourself will become radiant in your own vision.
 
God is not a person: it is a vision of life in its utter radiance. God is not a person: it is an experience, a psychedelic experience of the beauty, of the tremendous, incredible beauty, of life.

Sufis are right when they say: There is no God until you have met him. So, please, don't hide yourself behind a curtain of belief. Don't hide yourself behind your so-called, borrowed knowledge. Drop all beliefs, all knowledge, and start searching. Immediately, when you are empty, you will start being filled by something unknown... a light from the beyond. That is God. A love that goes on growing and starts overflowing -- that is God. A great music is born in you, and a sharing with it. And it goes on growing and there is no end to it... that is God.

God is not a person but the experience of ultimate ecstasy, the orgasmic experience of dissolving oneself into the whole.

We are living in a kind of unconsciousness.