Why and when weep/wail for Sai Krishna ?

[OmSaiRamNowOn]

Jai Sai Ram.

My dear brothers and sisters, feel free to express your views and thoughts on this question - Why and when to weep/wail for Sai Ma Krishna ? Will it be in separation or for happiness or out of happiness? in ecstasy  or love and devotion? May Sai bless all !!

[saidasan]

I don't think there are hard and fast rules. A devotee must be herself/himself with Sai.  Even the innermost thought is audible to him even if it's not spoken. So better be yourself with a mind to learn and correct from your mistakes. Cry when you want to cry be it for anything.  Crying is a strong emotion when words are superflous. Does he value your cries better? Not if they come out of dissapointment w.r.t worldy life – I don't have a job, I'm not married etc. When one begins to discern right from wrong in his/her traits he/she is taking the path to activate 'Sai' in their heart. By continously renewing themselves with careful self-analysis they begin to cry only during bliss and not for wordly problems. No amount of reading spiritual texts can help a devotee to reach that state because they are recorded as information. A Spiritual experience is recorded in the heart while Spiritual information gets to the mind. If the heart is pure mind has no choice but to comply with heart.

[Kavitaparna]

OM SRI SAI RAM

Anju ji, Saidasan ji, Sai Ram!

Coming to the weeping / wailing  OR  happiness / ecstasy / love / devotion, it is a totally individualized perception irrespective of the logic / reasons / other related facts whether it is for Sai or for any petty issue. The same individual reacts in a different way at different times whatever be the standard and state of his mind.

Whether the heart is pure or not, the heart hardly has a thinking capacity, there is no analysis taking place in heart. It can not even analyse whether something is worth weeping for or not. It can feel the emotions as its major function. Chitta (heart) is only a storage of impressions while, Buddhi (brain) knows, decides, judges and discriminates. The association between Ahamkara and the memories in Chitta is the root problem. (sorry for a deviation).

Purity in the heart can make me a good sadhaka and definitely not enable me to reach my destination solely. The thinking and analyzing brain in association with a pure heart perhaps be able to make me reach my destination faster. However,  an impure heart which is capable of pondering on everything can certainly disturb my concentration and become a hurdle in my sadhana. Thus, a pure heart can only be a major instrument in my way to the goal.

Baba be with us all
Baba bless us all

Jai Sai Ram

[saidasan]

Kavitha akka,
Whether the heart is pure or not, the heart hardly has a thinking capacity, there is no analysis taking place in heart. It can not even analyse whether something is worth weeping for or not. It can feel the emotions as its major function. Chitta (heart) is only a storage of impressions while, Buddhi (brain) knows, decides, judges and discriminates.

By heart I meant conscience. Just like the heart is the life source for the Body, conscience is the life source for divinity.

Purity in the heart can make me a good sadhaka and definitely not enable me to reach my destination solely. The thinking and analyzing brain in association with a pure heart perhaps be able to make me reach my destination faster.

I'm afraid I have to differ with you. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa couldn't write his own name. Swami Vivekananda says "One moment of madness in love towards Gods wards off serious Sins".  It's the ultimate act that could take one nearer to God.
Analytical mind is mostly conditioned by Social factors. The fact you wanted to show restraint from crying when Baba garlanded his own self is your analytical mind taking control however the gesture wanting to shed tears is madness in love, which is the supreme Sadhana. When did you feel better? While crying or when showing restraint?

[sureshsarat]

Om Sri Sainathaya Namaha
Om Sri Sainathaya Namaha
Om Sri Sainathaya Namaha
Dear All Sairam
The topic has taken a interesting turn !
Saidasanji has put it right. And again I shall revert and take refuge in my statement "Happiness and sorrow are just a state". And the soul is not party to any of these. And somehow we are going in circles on the following:
1. I am Jiva
2. My body is my soul

Whether we weep, wail or laugh, but if these are done with the consciousness that God is in Me and it is my soul which is essential then these actions take a different form altogether.
Such awareness that my soul is eternal, God and I are one automatically leads to purity and spirituality. This shall lead to the Samadhi state.  Even Lord Sai wept on the death of his disciple Megha.
Can we perform these actions and at the same time be detached ? This is more important a question we should try to analyze. Detachment is the answer to freedom from emotional challenges. Lord Sai was in Sahaja Samadhi and still carried out the worldly affairs most skillfully. He set an example for the mankind to follow.
It has been said, there were many spiritual leaders, who could go to the Samadhi state and work miracles like clairvoyance, mind reading. But these were in the Samadhi state for short periods. Then they returned to the wordly affairs. But our Lord could maintain both the states at a time. Therefore, he could talk to his disciples in front of him and at the same time go to the rescue of others at far away places. I am sorry that this is going off track.

But the point I am trying to make is "all emotions are just a state". The SSC is a very very good source of knowlege for all this.
Suresh

[Ramesh Ramnani]

जय सांई राम।।।

Why to Weep and why to Wail for Krishna... शिकायत शिकवा किस बात का?  रोना किस चीज़ के लिये? मिटने वाली वस्तुओं के लिये?  बाबाकृष्ण तो भाव के भूखे से श्रद्दा और सबूरी के दो फूल और प्रेम के दो अश्रू चाहते है। यह तो निर्भर करता है भक्त पर। सांईदासन भाई ने बहुत अच्छी बात कही है कि किताबी ज्ञान से यह सब नही आ सकता इसके लिये तो भक्त को विरही बनकर ही अनुभव आ सकता है। जब साधक भक्त अपने ह्रदय मे उसको बसा लेता है तो यह लाज़मी है कि उसका प्रेम बरसेगा अश्रूओं के रूप में। दूसरी ओर उत्साहित भक्त को भी बाबा प्राप्ति में प्रसन्नता में अश्रू आयेगे।
 
अपना सांई प्यारा सांई सबसे न्यारा अपना सांई

ॐ सांई राम।।।

[saidasan]

Sai ram Ramesh ji,
If it's not impolite, Can I request you (and other devotees) to post your replies in English as well at least in threads where more than one language is used. It'd be beneficial for ppl who can't read Hindi – Like me!

[Kavitaparna]

जय सांई राम।।।

Why to Weep and why to Wail for Krishna... शिकायत शिकवा किस बात का?  रोना किस चीज़ के लिये? मिटने वाली वस्तुओं के लिये?  बाबाकृष्ण तो भाव के भूखे से श्रद्दा और सबूरी के दो फूल और प्रेम के दो अश्रू चाहते है। यह तो निर्भर करता है भक्त पर। सांईदासन भाई ने बहुत अच्छी बात कही है कि किताबी ज्ञान से यह सब नही आ सकता इसके लिये तो भक्त को विरही बनकर ही अनुभव आ सकता है। जब साधक भक्त अपने ह्रदय मे उसको बसा लेता है तो यह लाज़मी है कि उसका प्रेम बरसेगा अश्रूओं के रूप में। दूसरी ओर उत्साहित भक्त को भी बाबा प्राप्ति में प्रसन्नता में अश्रू आयेगे।
 
अपना सांई प्यारा सांई सबसे न्यारा अपना सांई

ॐ सांई राम।।।

OM SRI SAI RAM

DEAR SRI, SAI RAM

LET ME MAKE A TRIAL TO TRANSLATE ( TRULY A VERY BAD TRANSLATION) THE HINDI QUOTE OF RAMESH BHAI JI AS BELOW.

RAMESH BHAI JI! SAI RAM ... PL FORGIVE ME SINCE I WOULD DEFINITELY CAN NOT TRANSLATE BUT IT IS A TRIAL FOR MY BHAI SAIDASAN JI.  KINDLY CORRECT ME .

WHY TO WEEP AND WHY TO WAIL FOR KRISHNA ?....ON WHAT MATTER SHOULD BE THESE COMPLAINTS?  WHAT FOR TO CRY?  IS IT FOR THE THINGS THAT BECOME EXTINCT?  BABA KRISHNA WANTS FROM US A COMPLETE AND LONGING  SHRADDHA,  A COUPLE OF FLOWERS OF FAITH AND A COUPLE OF TEARS OF LOVE.  THUS, HE IS DEPENDENT ON THE DEVOTEES.

BROTHER SAIDASAN HAS SAID IT VERY NICELY / BEAUTIFULLY THAT No amount of reading spiritual texts can help a devotee to reach that state because they are recorded as information.A Spiritual experience is recorded in the heart while Spiritual information gets to the mind.

WHEN  A SADHAKA MAKES HIS HEART THE ABODE OF BABA,  HIS LOVE COMES OUT IN THE FORM OF A SHOWER OF TEARS. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE ORDINARY / ENTHUSIASTIC DEVOTEES TOO SHED TEARS IN THE HAPPINESS OF HAVING  BABA.BABA BLESS US ALL
JAI SRI SAI RAM

[OmSaiRamNowOn]

BROTHER SAIDASAN HAS SAID IT VERY NICELY / BEAUTIFULLY THAT No amount of reading spiritual texts can help a devotee to reach that state because they are recorded as information.A Spiritual experience is recorded in the heart while Spiritual information gets to the mind.

WHEN  A SADHAKA MAKES HIS HEART THE ABODE OF BABA,  HIS LOVE COMES OUT IN THE FORM OF A SHOWER OF TEARS. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE ORDINARY / ENTHUSIASTIC DEVOTEES TOO SHED TEARS IN THE HAPPINESS OF HAVING  BABA.[/color]BABA BLESS US ALL
JAI SRI SAI RAM

Jai Sai Ram blessed dear ones, first of all I guess question should have been "Who weeps or wails for SaiKrishna ?" -- truly tears flowing out for SaiKrishna in state of suffering or bliss or due to longing of separation or in ecstasy ..pure bhakti. or dissatisfacion for not being able to offer enough svc at lotus feel of Lord....is something only one might experience as and when one goes thru those stages/emotions in God's conciousness state. I feel that Lord and loving svc for HIM are one and same, one can go on increasing his hankering for the loving transcendental service of the Lord, and yet he will not find satiation or end. By intense service of the Lord, one can experience the presence of the Lord transcendentally. Therefore seeing the Lord means being engaged in His service because His service and His person are identical.
Once we have a grasp of this understanding, a problem would arise if we are unable to be engaged in such svc, either because of an unsteady mind, lack of desire, complacency, satiation, offences and other causes. These are certainly reasons to cry.Crying for SaiKrsna is an internal way of beseeching the Lord for empathy and strength to be constant in practice. It is a private matter, unless one is lucky to have like-minded friends with whom to confide, and who understand each other. When conditions are favorable, a pure devotee laughs, and when emotions are not favorable, he cries. All by HIS mercy.

Thank you all for your thoughts on this topic. Pls feel free to add. Jai Jai Jai Sai Ram.

[Kavitaparna]

OM SRI SAI RAM

Dear Anju ji, Sai Ram !

First of all thanks a lot for this thought provoking topic owing to which, my beloved brothers have shared a lot of information with (me) us.

More interestingly, the topic has taken a beautiful turn and is coming to the point on which I have struggling to clarify my self during the past one fortnight. But, this turn is an excellent food for thoughts and clarity.

Baba bless us all
Baba be with us all

Jai Sai Ram

[saidasan]

Kavitha akka,
Thanks for taking the time to translate. Really appreciated! I won't go about asking for translations in future but here I felt disconnected
Om Sairam.

[OmSaiRamNowOn]

Jai Sai Ram. Kavita didi, Bhai ji and all others who have given time , I am happy that we had the opportunity to share our thoughts and perspective. This question was result of my own confusion being sometimes in such state and not quite knowing what to make out of it- am myself trying to look for some answers/direction. Thank you.

[Kavitaparna]

OM SRI SAI RAM

I feel truly enlightened by the following words of my dearest ones.

Crying is a strong emotion when words are superflous. Does he value your cries better? No.
A Spiritual experience is recorded in the heart while Spiritual information gets to the mind. If the heart is pure mind has no choice but to comply with heart.
Just like the heart is the life source for the Body, conscience is the life source for divinity.
"One moment of madness in love towards Gods wards off serious Sins".  It's the ultimate act that could take one nearer to God.

An excellent example for  Prema bhakti is “Meera bai”. She never bothered about the worldly happenings, the surroundings and was always in  a bliss - in her love for Krishna.

This madness in love does not wait for any analysis, application of mind. Here, in such status, there is no discrimination, in the sense, heart and mind both are thoroughly synchronized. There is no emotion , no analysis, no thinking – only devotional love. The devotee seeks the ultimate happiness always (thrisandhya – all the time)  in loving  The Lord by their manas, vakk, and karma (thikaranasuddhi). There is no other thing that can deviate them. 

Analytical mind is mostly conditioned by Social factors.

Wherever  analysis is prevalent, dos and donts are discrimated. For a sadhaka discrimination is an essential criterion in the sense,  what is permanent and what is non-permanent – at the ultimate level, what is Chaitanya and what is Maya? It is with this in my ‘mind’, I mentioned the necessity and the domination as well of the brain  (Buddhi - mind) over the heart (the Manas – Chitta). 

For a devotee,  only the heart dominates. There is no need (or may be minimum need) for  the  usage of brain since, the heart is so pure and filled with the God, love for God, Devotion for God  that the brain is thoroughly in tune with the heart that it has to follow and probably has no other function than being mere a physiological organ. 


 The fact you wanted to show restraint from crying when Baba garlanded his own self is your analytical mind taking control however the gesture wanting to shed tears is madness in love, which is the supreme Sadhana. When did you feel better? While crying or when showing restraint?

This is a very good example. Really I thank you Sri ! 
Akka showing restraint is the domination that her brain wanted over her heart. By Shedding the tears,  her heart had won the situation. Resultant is uncomparable and unbound happiness.  The Chitta had won while Buddhi though tried to restrain,  kept quiet to take its share of happiness.

Can we perform these actions and at the same time be detached ? This is more important a question we should try to analyze. Detachment is the answer to freedom from emotional challenges.

That is why we take sole refuge of the Lotus feet of our Guru. Even tremendous practice can not be of any use unless and until the Guru Kripa is there for such refinement. Detachment certainly streamlines the emotions. Then the question of emotional challenges does not arise.

BABA KRISHNA WANTS FROM US A COMPLETE AND LONGING  SHRADDHA,  A COUPLE OF FLOWERS OF FAITH AND A COUPLE OF TEARS OF LOVE.  THUS, HE IS DEPENDENT ON THE DEVOTEES.

What a beautiful exopression ! As we are dependent on God, HE is also dependent on pure souls and a pure heart of a devotee is the real abode of HIS.

It is a private matter, unless one is lucky to have like-minded friends with whom to confide, and who understand each other. When conditions are favorable, a pure devotee laughs, and when emotions are not favorable, he cries. All by his mercy!

Indeed, it is HIS mercy that we all are able to share these thoughts here.

Baba bless us
Baba be with us

Jai Sai Ram

[sureshsarat]

Om Sri Sainathaya Namaha
Om Sri Sainathaya Namaha
Om Sri Sainathaya Namaha

Dear All Sairam
First of all, Guru Kripa is most essential for spiritual realization ! SSC expounds this in many places, and in one unique story of the Vanjari and 4 persons in search of God. The Guru Charitra also explains this. This has to be the foremost of our goals if at all we need to attain salvation. But how is the question ?

As for the following
Analytical mind is mostly conditioned by Social factors.

Wherever  analysis is prevalent, dos and donts are discrimated. For a sadhaka discrimination is an essential criterion in the sense,  what is permanent and what is non-permanent – at the ultimate level, what is Chaitanya and what is Maya? It is with this in my ‘mind’, I mentioned the necessity and the domination as well of the brain  (Buddhi - mind) over the heart (the Manas – Chitta).

For a devotee,  only the heart dominates. There is no need (or may be minimum need) for  the  usage of brain since, the heart is so pure and filled with the God, love for God, Devotion for God  that the brain is thoroughly in tune with the heart that it has to follow and probably has no other function than being mere a physiological organ.


 The fact you wanted to show restraint from crying when Baba garlanded his own self is your analytical mind taking control however the gesture wanting to shed tears is madness in love, which is the supreme Sadhana. When did you feel better? While crying or when showing restraint?

This is a very good example. Really I thank you Sri !
Akka showing restraint is the domination that her brain wanted over her heart. By Shedding the tears,  her heart had won the situation. Resultant is uncomparable and unbound happiness.  The Chitta had won while Buddhi though tried to restrain,  kept quiet to take its share of happiness.

The analytical mind and our restrain on emotions under social behavior are all the result of our worldly knowledge. And this knowledge has been imbibed into us from the day we were born.
Is this the true knowledge needed for salvation ? First of all, we need to surrender this knowledge at the feet of our Lord Sai and become devoid of EGO. Once this is done, we will be receptive to the true knowledge. The example of the overturned empty mud pots teach us this. Once we become free of ego we become almost knowledgeless.
Just like the act of restraining our tears, the toilet training practise as a child are all worldly knowledge.
In one book of Sai, I read that once Lord Sai urinated in the place overnight. Next morning the the devotees found fragrance emanating from the place. I was wondering how come this ? It appeared derogatory. But today more particularly at this moment I realize. Can any socially trained mortal do this in this modern age ?  The very knowledge that this act is a social taboo is itself our Ego.

And for the past few days, I was thinking I should stop responding to some of these topics. That trying to do is a presence of my Ego and it's need to prove that I am knowledgeable. Dear all, I am in a dilemma on this. But thanks to my Lord, I learned an important lesson today.
Suresh

[saidasan]

Sairam Kavitha akka and Suresh ji,
Both the analytical mind and pure devotion works hand-in-glove to make  surrender better. Which should take predominance varies from individual to individual. It cannot be generalized however both these virtues work hand-in-glove only to certain level and after that it is pure Love i.e. Energy from our conscience (conventionally mentioned as heart) that can take us closer to him. You can't travel to Space in an Airplane, you need a rocket to escape Gravity similarly to escape Gravity of Worldly thoughts/activities you need Love. Once again the discerning mind of a devotee sends a message at the right time when its services are not needed. When such transformation happens involuntarily – A devotee understands that God has given him a tool to escape Gravity of the Worldly emotions. This is not Sanyas, it is be in the world but be not Worldly -- A perfect Karma Yogi.

The analytical mind and our restrain on emotions under social behavior are all the result of our worldly knowledge. And this knowledge has been imbibed into us from the day we were born.
Is this the true knowledge needed for salvation ? First of all, we need to surrender this knowledge at the feet of our Lord Sai and become devoid of EGO. Once this is done, we will be receptive to the true knowledge.
Suresh ji,
Spot-on! But Surrendering our worldly knowledge and Ego are lofty tasks for most commoners like me. From my personal experience the easier way to go about it is to start Loving him. Once you're on quest to reach him through love Sai takes care of guiding you the correct thorn less path. You will sometime realize the plane you traveled is quite steep but you didn't feel the fatigue, which would not be possible in other ways.

And for the past few days, I was thinking I should stop responding to some of these topics. That trying to do is a presence of my Ego and it's need to prove that I am knowledgeable. Dear all, I am in a dilemma on this.
I think you should continue to interact and voice your opinion. Exposure to different facets of Bhakti can enable us to reach him better. It is perfectly fine as long as a devotee doesn't flaunt his/her privileges. You don't resort to such ways, Why worry, Sir?