Conversations with My Master His Holiness Shri Datta Swami

[dattaswami]

47.   What is the importance of distribution of food?

A poor fellow suffers for some punishment given by God and it is for transformation. Then if you give food to a poor man, it is good. But, you have given food during the time of transformation. When the soul is undergoing transformation, don’t you think that God has not arranged his food? Do you think that God has left a soul in this world without giving food in His administration? Suppose some beggar is not getting food for one day or for some few days and he is suffering. God is giving some intensive suffering to transform the soul in that case. This does not meant that we should not give food to a dying person. No no, give food and help the poor no doubt but you also introduce some spiritual knowledge and devotion into him so that the transformation of the soul becomes quicker. Therefore, you help the poor in the name of God. Simply, do not do social service without the mission of God.

 Mother Theresa helped the poor and she did the service but she was religious. While helping, she used to take the name of Jesus. The spiritual mission is associated with social service. It is not like the social service of the politicians. See the Christians missionaries. They also do social service but they create the atmosphere of Jesus and everything. They do prayers etc., and some atmosphere of spirituality is created. Therefore, giving food and helping the poor is a secondary thing.

The primary aim is to introduce spiritual knowledge and devotion into him so that the transformation becomes quicker and he will be blessed by God. Once, he is blessed by God, you need not give food. God will give the food to him. Therefore, see that he gets the blessing of God, that is primary work and as a secondary work, you can give food etc. As in a residential college, the lodging and boarding are secondary. The preaching is of primary importance. I am not against social service but the social service should always be combined with spiritual mission. Even in Hinduism, they do Anna Danam, but it is associated with some pujas some worship of God. Then God will not mind because the primary work is done then the secondary work is also being done.

[dattaswami]

48.   If all paths lead to God then, what about idol worship?

Idol worship is only a representative worship. The address of God is not directly in the idol. God does not exist in statues. You cannot get the address of God everywhere as in the form of Krishna or Jesus. I never said not to worship statue of God. But, in idol worship, you are not worshiping God directly. Idol worship is acceptable for sometime but not life long. But, God will come and guide you and take you to the higher level when you are matured enough.

[dattaswami]

49.   Whether rich people are blessed?

Rich need not be a blessing. They will have lot of worries to protect the riches. Sometimes due to rich, he may be attacked by naxalites, thieves etc. Richness also cannot solve all the problems. He may get some cancer. Will any amount of money cure the cancer? Rich is not a complete solution. In fact, Jesus told that a camel may go through the eye of a needle but a rich man cannot enter the kingdom of God. In fact, He was against the rich.

[dattaswami]

50.   What is Moksha or salvation? [January 5, 2008]

Actual meaning of Moksha is liberation but the sense can be according to the context. Suppose somebody is prisoned. For him, liberation from jail is Moksha. It can be used like that in general sense. However, in the context of spiritual knowledge, what is salvation? Liberation from worldly bonds is liberation. When the bond with the God is formed, the other bonds cannot stay. But, the point here is that when the bond is formed with God, subsequently and spontaneously the bond from the world vanishes. He is liberated from the bonds of the world as soon as the bond with God is formed. Therefore, there is no need of any effort for liberation. Liberation is the spontaneous consequence of your attachment to God.

 Once the bond with God is formed, the liberation from the worldly bonds is the spontaneous consequence. It is a natural consequence. There is no need of any effort for liberation. All the efforts must be put only for attachment of yourself to God. The more you are attached to God, the more you are liberated from the worldly bonds. Hence, it is a natural consequence. All the efforts must be put to develop the attachment to God. Devotion is directly proportional to the salvation. More the devotion, more will be the salvation. Now for attachment of yourself to God, the worldly bonds will disturb. Therefore, in the initial stage some efforts must be put for liberation also so that you will get some lone atmosphere and you will avoid the disturbance so that you can hear God. While you hear about God, you must avoid worldly disturbance so that you get rid of worldly bonds and can put effort seriously.

After hearing the knowledge about the God, devotion is developed. Once the devotion is developed, there is no need of any the effort for liberation. Liberation is a spontaneous consequence. Initially some little effort is need for liberation to develop devotion. Therefore, the definition of liberation in the context of spiritual knowledge is the liberation from the worldly bonds, which is a spontaneous consequence of devotion to God.
In the initial stage i. e., before the devotion is established or before the devotion is generated; knowledge about God is necessary. Unless you know something about Mumbai, you will not have interest to reach Mumbai. In the initial stage of learning the details of God; hearing about God; the devotion is not generated in that stage. Little effort must be put for liberation. Once you cross that stage and once the devotion is generated on God then there is no need of any effort for liberation. Liberation is a spontaneous consequence of devotion.

[dattaswami]

51.   What is the state of liberation or salvation?

This state is completely filled with devotion to God and nothing else. That is the sate of liberation. State of liberation does not mean absence of every quality. It is not a qualityless state. It has the quality of devotion. A devotee becomes a libearated soul when he is relieved from the influence of all the bonds except the bond with the God. It is the state of liberation. Liberation means relieving yourself from all the bonds except the bond with God. Liberation does not mean relieving yourself from all the bonds including the bond with God.

 Then, it is not liberation. In Adaviata philosophy, all the bonds are dissolved and only simple awareness is left over. There is no bond. It is not liberation. It is only just a state of meditation, where all the ideas disappear. Liberation means a state where the quality of devotion is higher and the bond with God is the strongest. Infact, the bond with God alone is leftover and all other bonds simply vanish. It is the liberation from all the bonds other than the bond with God and that is the liberation.

[dattaswami]

52.   What is the importance of Marriages?

Marriage is for the reproduction or generation of issues. It is a divine mission. Homosexuality is against the divine mission. It shows only worldly blind attachment. At least marriage with the opposite sex leads to generation of issues and when the issues are borned, you are paving the way for giving the gross body for the souls coming from the upper world to the earth. You are participating in the divine mission and so the marriage is a part of divine mission and sometimes, who knows, you may give birth to Adi Shankara or to Meera.

In that case, as father and mother of Shankara or as father and mother of Meera or as father and mother of Swami Vivekananda, you are blessed. Is it not? Therefore, the marriage is a divine mission. It is not wrong to avoid the marriage provided it is natural, not by force. Avoiding marriage is liberation. When one is attached to God intensively, the worldly bonds are dropped naturally. For example take Adi Shankara, He was attached to God and His mind did not go for any worldly bonds. He did not marry. Similarly, Jesus, Swami Vivekananda etc. Why did they not marry? First, they are attached to God and they are liberated from the worldly bonds and therefore, these worldly bonds are not attractive to them. Therefore, it all depends on your interest on God. That is why learning about God must be done in the childhood itself, Brahmacharya Ashrama. Charya means knowledge.

 Marriage is not done in the childhood. By the end of the childhood or brahmacharya, you have learned sufficiently about God. Knowledge is completed. You must have got devotion completely on God. In that case, automatically the liberation is a spontaneous process. You are not willing to marry; that is very good. But, after finishing Brahma Charya also if you have desire to marry that means even after learning about God, the real interest is not created on God. Better marry in that case.

Now, after marrying, in course of time again continue your effort. The Brhmacharya should be continued i. e., learning about God. Wife also can take part in that. Then slowly by Vanprastha ashrama, the third ashrama, you may develop interest on God. She may also develop interest on God and then both of you are like co-spiritual aspirants in association in spiritual effort and finally lead to sanyasa for the complete absorption on God. It is again reaching the goal late. Any way, one should not leave the marriage by force. If one is not interested in marriage due to his interest in God then it is not wrong. If there is no interest on God then he should marry. Some people are not interested in God and they are also not interested in marriage. They do not want to take responsibility. They want to enjoy. This is not correct. Reason must be interest on God. Due to interest on God, both Shankara and Jesus did not marry and that is correct.

While selecting the wife, our elders very much concentrated on the background of the girl. If the background of the girl is good and they are also spiritual aspirants, then the girl also will get that culture and she will be congenial to you in your spiritual effort also. That is why in marriage, in olden days, the background was seen very much in our elder generation. But today marriage is simply performed just based on physical body attraction or based on financial consideration. This approach is not correct. In marriage, your primary aim should be to select a partner for your spiritual achievement, she must atleast have some interest in God so that both of you can go together in spiritual path. The marriage is not wrong provided the partner is good and also helpful in progressing in the spiritual path. In the spiritual path also, the satsanga should be done and you need a companion for it. You need somebody to discuss about God and if it is your wife, how lucky it will be.

[dattaswami]

53.   Lord in human form will not allow all people to come to Him. What is the meaning of this?


Generally, incarnation of God is not interested in masses. Generally, people are in wrong route only. They want to exploit God for their personal solution. They do not come for learning the real spiritual knowledge and serve God without any aspiration. Nobody comes to God with this aim in mind. If the human incarnation encourages that wrong route, several people come to Him, then he must not be a human incarnation because God in human form is not fond of fame of masses. He is not fond of fame if God is really in that human body.

He has already enjoyed lot of fame. Will He be fond of masses and fame? No. He wants to guide the correct people in the correct path. For that purpose, He comes and not just to attract masses and get the fame etc. If such effort is done, surely he is not God. He is only a soul because the soul is always fond of fame. He has not tasted the fame already. However, God has tasted enough fame. Hence, any action of God will not be towards the fame. His action will be only to guide the people in the correct path. When His concentration is like that, generally masses will not be around Him. Rama and Krishna were not mass personalities. Similarly, Shankara. Shankara never drew masses. He only debated with scholars.

Therefore, it is not a question of mass attraction but it is the question of leading the people in the true path. When He concentrates in leading the people in the true path, generally, people will not like Him. So, there will not be masses around Him. There will not be fame. But, God is not perturbed because He has enough fame. In fact, He was bored with the fame. Therefore, His tendency will not be towards fame and attraction of masses. His tendency will always be only to give the correct guidance. In that case, generally, the real incarnation of God will not be after fame. That is why the incarnation of Datta means Guru Datta, Guru means preacher. Preacher always sticks to the truth. If He sticks to the truth, the people will be less. He does not bother because He is not fond of fame. He is not a politician, who draws or attracts the masses.

[dattaswami]

54.   While propagating knowledge, some people do not understand it. What to do?

For the people who are at the basic level, the knowledge should be mixed with several defects. Wrong knowledge must be mixed then only the basic people will follow. Slowly as they climb, the wrong knowledge should be removed and the correct knowledge must be exposed. If you mix the wrong knowledge then only basic people are attracted. For example, if you say ‘do this prayer, your problem will be solved’ then people are attracted. For dealing with such masses, there are several gurus, who take the help of God and want to earn something by showing God’s power to solve their problems and such people are there several already. Though they have those defects, they have got one merit that they divert people to God and they are not atheists.

 You can treat it as some LKG class or elementary class. For such elementary classes, there is no need of effort of God to preach because several people are already generated naturally for peraching at that level. They want to lead people in wrong line and earn something. Though they are in wrong line, they have one merit and that is approaching God. By frequent approach to God, your love to God also will increase. As your problems are solved, you will get more and more acquaintance with God. Then you start thinking about God, analyze about God and finally knowledge about God.

Therefore, it is also a basic step and one should not condemn it. For that, there is no need of effort of God because without His effort already the defective people and wrong gurus are several in the creation, spontaouesly produced for their livelilyhood and fame. God need not put any effort to generate gurus for masses. Gurus are spontaneously generated for masses. Only for higher level, God puts effort because for higher level people, the gurus are not spontaneously generated. For higher level, a real Guru is needed. Jesus is only one guru meant for the higher level. But, if you take wrong gurus, there were several. All those priests, who condemned Jesus and crucified were of those type only. They also believed in God. They did not oppose God. You cannot condemn them completely, though they are fond of money and fame and they have all nonsense of business; in spite of all these negative points, there is one positive point and that is that they accepted God. Jesus need not put effort to create such priests because the nature itself has spontaneous arrangement to create such false gurus suitable to the lower level. God does not take any effort for that. Already natural set up is there.

[dattaswami]

55.   What is that God in human form expects from His top most devotees?

He does not expect anything from anybody. Only, we have to decide. If you do something according to the expectation of God then we will aspire for some result. ‘Oh! I have done according to Your expectation then what is the fruit for this’. Such idea comes. Suppose you do something without any expectation from God by yourself; then you cannot expect anything in return for your service. If you expect something, God will say, ‘did I ask you to do this? I never asked to do this’. Suppose you have done something by yourself. You have participated in the mission by yourself. You have done some service without the expectation of God, then you cannot ask God for some result. Suppose God expects you to participate in the service and you have participated. Then there is a chance to ask God for some result.

 The disciple may argue like you expected something from me and I fulfilled it; then protect me and do something to me. Such tendency may develop. There is atleast a chance to ask like that. So, one should participate in the mission of God without any expectation from God. He should not bother about the expectation of the God. He should do the service to God by himself and by his own interest. When he does by himself, never in his mind will he get any aspiration or result from God. That is the best process.

[dattaswami]

56.   ‘God cannot help the undeserving’. Why it is so?

What is the meaning of help? Help means to liberate one from the sins. How will God liberate from sins? By transferring the sins on to Him by coming in Human form and suffer for that person. Now for such thing, the devotee must be a deserving devotee. Deserving means that he should not aspire for even that. He should not aspire for the transfer of his sins to God. In such case, God transfers the sins secretly without his knowledge because if he comes to know this he will deny it. That itself is the deservingness. If somebody serves God and wants that his sins should be transferred to God and he must get protection from God then he is not a deserving devotee. Deserving in exact sense means that he who does not aspire any help from God. Such person is the really deserving person. He does not aspire and that itself brings the deservingness.

He serves without any aspiration of fruit in return from God. It is called as deserving. God certainly helps him. It means he transfers his sins on to Him and will relieve him from all the sins because he is the most deserving. This is the actual meaning of ‘deserving’. You should not aspire any help from God in return for your service because you have done the service by yourself not according to the instruction or expectation from God. In that case, you are not going to expect any help from God and still you serve Him, then you become deserving and God helps you certainly. He is pleased. Jesus completed the mission of God by even sacrificing His life by undergoing the crucifixion. He did not expect anything from God. He did it for the sake of God to fulfil His mission. Therefore, God helped Him and was made to sit on the right hand side of God on the throne in Heaven. Deserving means one, who does not aspire any help of God in any way and at anytime.

[dattaswami]

57.   How shall we respond if somebody cheats us?

If you keep silent about that, there are two possibilities. You might have cheated him in the previous birth and he might have cheated you again in return now. The file is closed. Now, God will not revenge on him. Therefore, you should also keep silent, since the file is closed. It is only a counter action done to you for your previous action. This is one possibility. Alternatively, it may be that he is doing the action (harming you), then if you counter act, your counteracting will be very less. You keep silent and leave it to God. God says ‘Revenge is Mine’. God will counter act million times more effectively and so, your patience is the real characteristic of intellectual person here. One should be patient and leave it to God and pray God. Oh! God, it is your decision. He cheated me and I know you will give the judgment.

If I have already cheated him in the previous birth, this may be the counter action and the judge will not give another punishment to him. That is why when somebody harms us, there is no action taken on him. You do not see any action in that case. If it is a counter action, how can you see the action for that counteraction? In that case, the file is closed. If you take action for counter action then again some counter action is to be given to you. Again, the chain is generated. A closed file is re-opened. Suppose it is an action and not counter action. If action is done and counter action is not taken, whose administration will get bad name? God is more worried than you are. You are worried about the counter action but He is worried more than you are because in His administration some injustice happened. Will He tolerate it? Even if you tolerate, He will not tolerate. Why will He not tolerate because He wants to transform the soul through punishment.

Thus, punishment is also not for revenge. God wants to transform the soul continuously. Therefore, definitely there will be punishment. Hence, it is for Him to decide. Just keep silent and if it is not counter action and really action, then definitely you will see the counter action with your eyes, several times, million times more. But, if you have taken counter action then it may be again a counter action on counter action. Then again, you will have to receive counter action from God. Suppose in the action you leave to God, He will give the proper punishment. He knows when to give and how to give. Just leave it to Him. His administration is very important. It will never get any blame. He is more worried. He is omnipotent and capable of punishing the people. He is capable of uplifting His administration. Why should you bother? You keep silent and leave it to God.

[dattaswami]

58.   Some people are not interested in spiritual knowledge! What to do?

Spiritual knowledge is meant for the people who aspire for God, who want God’s grace, who have recognized God and find more value than the world and we talk for those people only. We do not talk about the people who have satisfied with the world. Let them be satisfied. For example, somebody is studying and he says that just pass mark is sufficient for me and let me enjoy. What we can do, if that is his attitude? If somebody says I will undergo all problems and I want to get first class, I want to get distinction. He will undergo lot of troubles and will get the result. Enjoyment of world is there and if that is your aim, nothing can be done. Those, who recognized God, the value of God, eternality of God and eternal fruit of the God, they will only be interested to know, what is the way to please the God, how to get the grace of God and only when such questions have started, we have started to preach the spiritual knowledge to them.

The fundamental and the basic stage in the spiritual knowledge is that people have recognized God and have given high value to God and want to know where is the God, what is the path, how to please the Him, how to get liberation from the world etc. We show the path only when such enquiries are made. Suppose you are satisfied with the world and experience of world itself is highest for you, the complete spiritual knowledge will not open at all! Suppose, you want to become a district collector and ask Me what is the way, then I will tell that you have to study IAS course (a course for obtaining a prestigious administrative post in India). You have to study many hours, many books etc.

If you have such aim, we will tell you the path. If you say that I am not bothered about IAS and say that if I become a peon or an attender or a coolie, it is beautiful and wonderful for me and I enjoy the life, then there is no question of IAS post for the people of such attitude.

The gate of the spiritual knowledge is closed for such people, who feel that world is wonderful, who feel that the worldly experience is wonderful etc. Certainly, for such people, the gate is closed. We started the preaching of spiritual knowledge for such people only, who think that these worldly pleasures are not eternal, they are momentary, they are illusory etc. Such spiritual knowledge will become irrelevant to other disinterested people. The gate of spiritual knowledge is open only when we want God, liberation from the world, the path to please God etc. If one says that I do not want God and I am satisfied with the world, the gate of spiritual knowledge itself is closed. Therefore, there is no question of discussing about him. You want to reach a goal and you ask the path then only discussions start. You do not want the goal, you feel that wherever you stay is the highest for you and you are getting highest enjoyment etc., then the gate is closed. The spiritual knowledge becomes irrelevant for such people.

[dattaswami]

59.   If re-incarnation is correct then why is the population increasing?

Some souls can disappear and some souls like Advaita philosophers, who lead a life of avadhuta, may become stones and trees. Some angels from the upper world can come into the world. Some condemned souls may rise. How is the statistical data going to help you in spiritual path? All this statistical data will not help the problem. God knows how to balance the data. He can create souls. He can dissolve the soul. After all, how is it going to help spiritually by knowing all the data? What is the use by collecting the data and the statistics? Collection of statistical data is useful for the government.

[dattaswami]

60.   What is renunciation? How is it related to serving God in Human form? [January 17, 2008]

If you are attached to God, then leaving the worldly attachment is a spontaneous consequence. Suppose you are immersed in the discussion of some subjects very deeply, can any other matter enter your brain? Even if somebody calls you for food then also you will say ‘No No, I will take latter on’. Is it not the detachment from the world? Similarly, when you are attached to God, detachment comes automatically. Human form of God is only just for the sake of address. It is a medium through which you can see the God, talk with the God etc. It is only a convenient expression of God. That is all. When you are attached very much to God then automatically your worldly attachments will get detached. That is the renunciation. You need not try for renunciation. Then it is not a real renunciation. When it comes spontaneously, then it is the real renunciation.

[dattaswami]

61.   How a discussion should be?

If one criticizes with some substantial point then one can answer. Without any substantial point if somebody criticizes, then leave it. Several people criticized Jesus in His lifetime. Even the priests criticized Him. But, they did not come with substantial points. Therefore, if there is some substantial point in the criticism then it is welcomed. Then we must attend to it. We must supply the answer and enter into a discussion. You may be right or I may be wrong. Why should I say that I am right and you are wrong? Let us discuss and if you are right then I will accept your point. If I am right then you accept mine. Both of us are only co-operating with each other. The common aim is to find out the Truth. It is not the question of whether you are right or I am right. Only important thing is: what is right. The quarrel comes when you tell that you are right or I am right. When the truth is superimposed on the person, the quarrel never ends. If in the discussion one feels that he is going to be wrong and other person is going to be right, then he will never end the discussion. You may think, Oh! I am going to be wrong and my opponent is going to be right, if such attitude comes, there will not be any end to the discussion.

 Truth is neither related to you nor related to Me. I have told something. You have told something. Either your point must be correct or My point must be correct, supposing there is no possibility of a third point. Whatever point seem to be right in the discussion, we both will accept. It is not the question of your point or My point. It is not a house restored by Me or it is not the house restored by you.
We put the mutual effort to find out the truth. A single brain sometimes gets mislead. When you discuss with somebody then some new angles are opened. Sometimes the new point from the other person may open our mind and we may find that our point is wrong and his point may be right. Then without any prejudice, we will accept the truth because our intension is not to prove ourself as right or the other person as wrong. Our intention should be only to find out the truth through shrewd analysis with the help of somebody. We also should have this attitude. Then only the discussion will proceed in the right path.

Whenever a minister takes his post, he performs an oath. We must take this as the oath for discussion. Somebody criticizes without any substantial argument. Then it means, he has jealousy against us. He is criticizing due to jealousy. If he tells that you are wrong etc., in the discussion, no relevant point has come other than the words used to show the jealousy! Only his jealousy is expressed. So what can one answer to such person? His intention is not to find out the truth.

 His intention is only to discourage you and scold you. When Jesus was in the court, those priests just blamed Him. They did not come out with real points from the scriptures like such and such points are in the scriptures, why are you modifying them and let us discuss. Those priests did not come forward like that. They simply critisized Jesus and mentioned that You revolted against scriptures and revolted against Roman Empire etc. Their attitude was only to kill Jesus but not to discuss the knowledge with Jesus. That is why Jesus kept silent. He never answered to the Governor also, who asked why do you keep silent, why don’t you reply? He kept silent because there is no substantial point on the other side. Their aim was only to kill Him but not to discuss the knowledge and know the truth. That is why He kept silent.